The second and third seasons may not have been nearly as good as the first but they were good enough to generally improve the whole picture of the show’s universe.
HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams
- Thread starter Ensign_Redshirt
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He didn't say all, or even most. But JJ Abrams, who is listed as producer on the very title of the thread, was the one perpetuating thr Khaaaaaaan falsehood (and could have used a FOLLOWER instead)
The thread title is - and has been - misleading and inaccurate. Abrams has (had) about as much actual involvement with the series as Robert Jordan's widow Harriet Macdougal does with Amazon's The Wheel of Time (which is very little).
His involvement on any level, and past behavior, is entirely irrelevant to the statements made by Jonah and Lisa - the co-developers and Showrunners - about the reasons behind the Season 1 production shutdown, though.
His involvement on any level, and past behavior, is entirely irrelevant to the statements made by Jonah and Lisa - the co-developers and Showrunners - about the reasons behind the Season 1 production shutdown, though.
Well, that preview certainly doesn't make it look as though the budget has been reduced, as one might have expected from a show whose S3 could only muster about half the viewership of S1 despite airing during the peak of the pandemic's stay-at-home phase. I wonder if there's a plan to bring casual/former viewers back with a more straightforward and accessible storyline. (I myself found the first half of S3 intriguing and compelling, but considered the revelations/denouements of the last two episodes severely flawed and underwhelming.) As things stand, I can't help thinking I'd be a lot more interested in this season if it were presented up front as the last; there's only so much existential android moping I can take. 
The title has nothing to do with how involved Abrams is, all it says is that the show is produced by JJ Abrams, and he is listed as a producer of the show. So there is nothing innacurate or misleading about the threat title, if someone reads more into that, it's on them, not the person who started the thread.
Hell, I'll admit, I've been guilty of including the names of people who barely involved in a project in a thread title, just because that name will get people's attention.
He's listed as a producer on the show. It isn't inaccurate.
I was kinda expecting that as the twist for the end of season one, but it seems they've gone in a different direction for quite some time, now.Not unless they never actually left the park!
I really can't remember which characters in the season 4 trailer died in the previous season or which turned out to be robots. Or which are dead robots. I'm pretty sure Aaron Paul is the only actual living human character?
Yeah, I think he is.
...or is he not human?!??!
...or is he not human?!??!
^ Caleb is human.
***WHOOSH***
Now that you mention it, I think you’re right. All the other humans died.
Wait, did the rich guy die?
I guess Felix is alive but did not appear in the flesh in S3.
Wait, did the rich guy die?
I guess Felix is alive but did not appear in the flesh in S3.
^ If you're talking about Serrac, his fate was left unknown.
Caleb is human, but the big reveal at the end of S3 - that, due to the military's brainwashing, and Dolores' master plan based on meeting him years ago, he's really just as much of an artificial person unwittingly playing out a mastermind's grand plan as Maeve was at the end of S1 - was a very lame and bad one. It was probably meant to be like rhyming poetry, or something...
Yeah, yeah, we get it, George.
But it just made the whole season feel small and insignificant.
Yeah, yeah, we get it, George.
But it just made the whole season feel small and insignificant.
No, it wasn't.
^ Yes, it was. If not, debate this point, if you can:
As an AI, albeit one with emotions, Dolores should be a primarily rational character, but the revelation that she selected him to lead humanity through the post-LinkedIn society doesn't square at all with her repeatedly putting him in harm's way. It was a bad twist that valued theme over narrative - and a tired, repetitive theme at that.
Two, the reveal that Caleb is practically a host himself, thanks to brainwashing, and was specifically chosen by his secret prior acquaintance Dolores to be a leader for humanity, completely robs him of the unknown-quantity factor that first made him interesting. (And what if he'd been shot in the head during one of their many battles? What would all Dolores' grand plans have amounted to then?)
As an AI, albeit one with emotions, Dolores should be a primarily rational character, but the revelation that she selected him to lead humanity through the post-LinkedIn society doesn't square at all with her repeatedly putting him in harm's way. It was a bad twist that valued theme over narrative - and a tired, repetitive theme at that.
Your opinion that Caleb has been robed "of the unknown-quantity factor that first made him interesting" is pure opinion, so that isn't even up for debate.
Here's mine. S3 SPOILERS FOLLOW.
The significance of Caleb isn't that he's an unknown quantity. It's that he provided Dolores with one of the rare examples of humanity and beauty in her dismal existence, something that was special enough for Dolores to remember as long as she physically could. His behavior that day, when his men just wanted to rape the hosts, was one of the prototypes Dolores used for "breaking out of the program," as breaking out of the role expected of him is exactly what Caleb did. Without Caleb, Dolores might have found another way and attained similar capabilities, but we and she will never know, because in the history that exists in-universe Caleb was one of her inspirations.
In fact you have it pretty much exactly backwards. You think the reveal is that Caleb is practically a host. That's wrong. That's not the big reveal here. The big reveal here is that despite all of the pressures on him to be locked into a programmed existence, Caleb was able to act independently to perform a kind and loving act against substantial pressures not to. It's a rare thing that is expressed, as Dolores herself said free will is fucking hard, but the implication is that Caleb is not alone in that potential, or else there isn't any point in saving humanity.
That's why Caleb himself isn't absolutely indispensable. If another person had ended up by Dolores's side because Caleb had been unfortunately shot in the head, maybe she'd have had a story to tell them about a beautiful expression of free will she'd once seen them perform. In other words, there's no reason to suppose that any of the people Dolores chose to hire to carry out her plan were randomly selected.
The point of season 3 was the revelation that humans were being programmed just as much as the hosts were, and that made Dolores start to see them as equally victims. I liked that revelation.
