Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character?

[Dayton3]

It seems to me that all the new characters created in offical Trek literature end up being pretty well liked by the majority of other characters they interact with.

in the Corps of Engineers books, the Tellarite second officer seemed to start off as pretty unlikable, but that was more to do with him having replaced a popular officer. And even then, he mellowed some and the rest of the characters came to like and respect him.

Likewise with the half Vulcan Leutenant Chen in the recent novel.

Why doesn't anyone take up the challenge of developing a character who the other characters simply do not like?

Better yet, why not create a character that the others start out liking but grow to dislike intensely?

 

[KRAD]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

in the Corps of Engineers books, the Tellarite second officer seemed to start off as pretty unlikable, but that was more to do with him having replaced a popular officer. And even then, he mellowed some and the rest of the characters came to like and respect him.

This is not at all true. In fact, Tev's continued inability to get along with his crewmates (with the notable exception of Bart Faulwell) is a running theme throughout the entire series from when he joined up forward. If you think he's mellowed and the rest of the characters like and respect him, you haven't been paying very close attention.

 

[Trent Roman]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

I can think of a few 'unliked' characters from the recent novels, such as T'Lana and Leybenzon. Many of the characters in Vanguard were pricks (or at least they were in Harbinger, since I never read further than that), as was most of the crew of the ENT-C in Well of Souls. Si Cwan was often unlikeable, always carrying himself with a sense of entitlement and a rather more barbaric view of justice than most of us here would countenance. By that token, a number of the characters introduced in the Gorkon series are not people you'd want to cuddle up to.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Dayton3]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

in the Corps of Engineers books, the Tellarite second officer seemed to start off as pretty unlikable, but that was more to do with him having replaced a popular officer. And even then, he mellowed some and the rest of the characters came to like and respect him.

This is not at all true. In fact, Tev's continued inability to get along with his crewmates (with the notable exception of Bart Faulwell) is a running theme throughout the entire series from when he joined up forward. If you think he's mellowed and the rest of the characters like and respect him, you haven't been paying very close attention.

That isn't what I get out of most of the stories in Grand Designs and Aftermath (haven't read Creative Couplings yet).

I remember a number of times crewmembers noting that Tev was apparently making an effort to get along with his fellow crewmembers.

 

[KRAD]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^ You need to read Creative Couplings.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^ You need to read Creative Couplings.

Sorry, but I just finished Creative Couplings a few weeks ago and I don't really remember Tev being portrayed as unlikable, I think he's mostly just misunderstood by and large. Don't get me wrong, he's pretentious and arrogant, but he's also Tellarite and I tend to think of that as just being par for the course with Tellarites.

If you're talking about the incident with Gomez, I'm still not really sure I see it the way you may be seeing it.

Maybe if you explained your view of Tev a bit.

I honestly thought he was growing closer to the crew, but maybe I've been reading into it something that wasn't there.

 

[JD]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

I don't know, I think there have been plenty of unlikeable characters in Trek Lit. Even though I do kinda like her, T'Prynn can be a bit of a bitch at times. I can't really think of any other characters off the top of my head, but I know there had to have been more.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Wait, I may be confused by the OP's question, are you talking about characters that WE the readers don't like or find unlikable or that other characters in the stories find unlikeable?

Some of my favorite characters in different stories are just horrible bastards sometimes, but I like their characters.

Update:

Okay I reread the first post and guess I was approaching it from MY perspective and not the crew's.

Still I think Tev largely misunderstood by his shipmates and even though they've both made approaches towards better understanding each other and creating a better working relationship, their cultural differences are getting in the way. Carol should honestly be more on top of the situation than she's been, of course she's been distracted as of late by Mr. Tall, Dark, & Wicked sense of humor.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Why doesn't anyone take up the challenge of developing a character who the other characters simply do not like?

Yeah, they can watch nuBSG for starters - an entire series full of characters like that.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

There are plenty of unlikable characters within the Trek universe. The "problem" is, in the Trek universe, you can't have the rest of the people around him reacting with out-and-out dislike. So instead of having a scene where Gomez shouts, "Tev, you arrogant prick, shut your piggy pie-hole and just do what I fucking tell you, asshole!" you get something like, Gomez closed her eyes, pushed down some unkind thoughts, and said, "Tev, let's just try it my way, okay?"

 

[Christopher]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^^Except that Tev would respect her more if she did the former. The way I approached his character was that, to his Tellarite way of thinking, politeness was hypocrisy and the civil way for people to relate to one another was by being brutally honest. Gomez made a fatal mistake in terms of their relationship by trying to interact with him on human terms, being civil and polite. If she'd remembered to treat him like a Tellarite, if she'd expressed her anger and disapproval openly from the start, he would've respected her from the start and they would've gotten along much better.

Although, as we've seen, getting too angry and confrontational would've just made him think she was in love with him...

 

[David Mack]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^ Yes, for Tellarites there's a fine line between angry and horny....

 

[Deano2099]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Min Zife maybe or Koll Azernal?
And I found Curzon Dax to be really quite unlikeable in The Art of the Impossible.
And Fearful Symmetry apparently takes a somewhat borderline character in Dukat and casts him as someone you can't help but hate.

 

[historypeats]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Better yet, why not create a character that the others start out liking but grow to dislike intensely?

Peter David does this with his Selelvian character in NF, particularly once the "Knack" is exposed.

 

[KRAD]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^^Except that Tev would respect her more if she did the former.

The problem isn't that Tev doesn't respect her -- that's a problem, but not the problem. The real problem is that he tends to forget that he's part of a team, and he also tends to forget that Gomez is his superior officer.

The way I approached his character was that, to his Tellarite way of thinking, politeness was hypocrisy and the civil way for people to relate to one another was by being brutally honest. Gomez made a fatal mistake in terms of their relationship by trying to interact with him on human terms, being civil and polite. If she'd remembered to treat him like a Tellarite, if she'd expressed her anger and disapproval openly from the start, he would've respected her from the start and they would've gotten along much better.

True, but, as you yourself showed in the story, Gomez was a little busy grieving.

Although, as we've seen, getting too angry and confrontational would've just made him think she was in love with him...

Indeed.

If you're talking about the incident with Gomez, I'm still not really sure I see it the way you may be seeing it.

See above -- what he did in Small World was completely in character, but it was also spectacularly irresponsible and was, at the very least, a violation of protocol.

I'd rather not "explain" my view of Tev because a lot of the issues with him come to a head in Security, which I assume you haven't read, what with nobody actually reading eBooks and stuff. Talk to me again in October.

Honestly, one of my biggest regrets with the eBook hiatus was that we had serious plans for Tev's further development. (Sarjenka's also.)

 

[Deano2099]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^ Yes, for Tellarites there's a fine line between angry and horny....

Wow. Guess my ex was a closet Trek fan after all...

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^^Except that Tev would respect her more if she did the former.

The problem isn't that Tev doesn't respect her -- that's a problem, but not the problem. The real problem is that he tends to forget that he's part of a team, and he also tends to forget that Gomez is his superior officer.

The way I approached his character was that, to his Tellarite way of thinking, politeness was hypocrisy and the civil way for people to relate to one another was by being brutally honest. Gomez made a fatal mistake in terms of their relationship by trying to interact with him on human terms, being civil and polite. If she'd remembered to treat him like a Tellarite, if she'd expressed her anger and disapproval openly from the start, he would've respected her from the start and they would've gotten along much better.

True, but, as you yourself showed in the story, Gomez was a little busy grieving.

Although, as we've seen, getting too angry and confrontational would've just made him think she was in love with him...

Indeed.

If you're talking about the incident with Gomez, I'm still not really sure I see it the way you may be seeing it.

See above -- what he did in Small World was completely in character, but it was also spectacularly irresponsible and was, at the very least, a violation of protocol.

I'd rather not "explain" my view of Tev because a lot of the issues with him come to a head in Security, which I assume you haven't read, what with nobody actually reading eBooks and stuff. Talk to me again in October.

Honestly, one of my biggest regrets with the eBook hiatus was that we had serious plans for Tev's further development. (Sarjenka's also.)

Correct, I haven't read past Small World, but that's nothing to do with the e-book format. I was buying all the trek books I could for a while WAY back when and ended up picking up SCE books 3 & 4 somehow missing 1 & 2 in the process. Continuing forward I soon had Foundations and on and on till the format change in book size and some discussions on here motivated me to finally track down books 1 & 2 online. Once I had them, I started reading the series finally and just finished Creative Couplings about a month ago I guess.

I've been toying with the idea of going ahead and reading the E-Books to avoid waiting for the next release, but I'm a bit afraid if I do that, I'll have no way to justify the cost of the next book when it comes out and then it'll lose priority on my buy list. New Dresden Files Short Stories & Thomas Novella coming out starting in October, then Princep's Fury in Nov. It's gonna be a busy month. (Heaven Forbid if Butcher wrote Star Trek.)

Anyways. I would love for the series to continue on. I've enjoyed it as much as Vanguard & IKS Gorkon, so I hope that we haven't seen the end of the DaVinci and her crew.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^^Except that Tev would respect her more if she did the former.

The problem isn't that Tev doesn't respect her -- that's a problem, but not the problem. The real problem is that he tends to forget that he's part of a team, and he also tends to forget that Gomez is his superior officer.

I'll grant the former, but the latter is in large part because Sonya failed to earn his respect at the beginning. Because she didn't assert herself and express her disapproval of him honestly as a Tellarite would, he perceived her as weak, untrustworthy, and indecisive.

See, as I see it, Tev isn't incapable of respecting others -- it's just that he only respects people who, in his eyes, have earned that respect. But since he's such a perfectionist, not a lot of people can meet his high standards of approval. In his defense, though, he applies the same high standards to his own performance.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Peter David does this with his Selelvian character in NF, particularly once the "Knack" is exposed.

You mean when the "Gleau" of his halo slips?

Nobody likes Quentin Stone very much either, in "A Rock and a Hard Place".

In the comics: "William Bearclaw".

 

[KRAD]

Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^^Except that Tev would respect her more if she did the former.

The problem isn't that Tev doesn't respect her -- that's a problem, but not the problem. The real problem is that he tends to forget that he's part of a team, and he also tends to forget that Gomez is his superior officer.

I'll grant the former, but the latter is in large part because Sonya failed to earn his respect at the beginning. Because she didn't assert herself and express her disapproval of him honestly as a Tellarite would, he perceived her as weak, untrustworthy, and indecisive.

Which doesn't change anything I said. He's still subordinate to her, and he consistently doesn't act it. Respect has nothing to do with it -- chain of command does.

As I said (and as you, Christopher, know, as does anyone who's read the eBook), this all comes to a head in Security, working in how Tev treated Gomez in Aftermath, how Gomez treated Tev (and how Tev responded) in Small World, and what we learned about Tev's background in Ring Around the Sky.