Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Wintermute, May 19, 2013.

  1. The Wreath of Khan

    The Wreath of Khan Locutus of Bored Moderator

    Jul 5, 2004
    Rockin' 'Round the Moons of Nibia
    :lol: Oh, please. The Blackist and HUAC, the Post Office banning distribution of materials they considered indecent, the Comics Code, the creation of the MPAA and the X-Rating (which hurt mainstream films but which was ironically a boon to porn), Jack Valenti's crusade against VCRs (a precursor of his support of the DMCA) Hoover's files on and blackmailing of Hollywood celebrities, an FCC that was even more restrictive than it was in the 90s and early 2000s, married couples that couldn't even be shown sleeping in the same bed, the obscenity trial and conviction of comedian Lenny Bruce, etc. etc. etc. None of this stuff is new, and it was much worse in the past. And none of it could have remained viable without widespread public support at the time.

    You think corporate and for-profit entertainment is a new thing? Seriously?

    What about the Michael Richards and Tracy Morgan incidents are anything new, other than the fact that their bigotry would have been rewarded rather than criticized in the past, and that Tracy Morgan wouldn't be able to do the kind of standup he does now if it weren't for black comedians like Richard Pryor breaking new ground earlier? Rush Limbaugh is still incredibly popular despite his numerous controversial comments, as is Bill Maher despite losing his ABC show after 9/11. But again, there's nothing new or unusual about any of that, and it didn't prevent him from moving on and continuing to do his act and a new TV show.

    Mel Gibson and Britney Spears? Welcome to ten years ago.

    Really, there's nothing anyone is doing in entertainment that is geared to offend or challenge the status quo?

    You mean a sitcom or comedy series in recent years that tackled racial and other social issues, often by being intentionally offensive to make a point?

    The Office
    30 Rock
    Everybody Hates Chris
    Chapelle Show
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    Family Guy
    The Simpsons

    Obviously it's not going to have the same impact as All in the Family did because of the time period it aired, but I would argue that since Ellen and Will and Grace sitcoms have done the same for LGBT issues as AitF and its spin-offs did for racial issues, by making it a mainstream topic.

    Speak for yourself. I know plenty of people who consume intelligent fiction.

    We have tons of indie artists now. In fact, moreso than ever before thanks to the internet, the thing you just criticized for dividing everyone's attention.

    We have kickstarter campaigns to fund low budget films. More films like Blair Witch are being made than ever before. We have people being given opportunities to work on or make professional productions because of YouTube videos they made.

    From the distant past of 2013!!!

    Oz Great and Powerful
    Star Trek Into Darkness
    The Croods
    Fast and Furious 6
    Identity Thief
    The Great Gatsby
    GI Joe Retaliation
    Silver Linings Playbook
    Django Unchained

    What a load of nonsense. You really live in your own little world of grossly exaggerated events, don't you? If you had to actually go through being Blacklisted, you would not be spouting such naive rhetoric.

    You don't think the time Muhammad Ali was most prominent in might have played a part in that, with the civil rights movement and the Vietnam draft? You don't think anyone would step up and fulfill the same role if put into similar circumstances? You don't think there are any celebrity activists for gay rights and other causes right now?

    Also, why are you waiting on Lebron James of all people to make a major social or political statement?

    And yet, somehow, people still manage to make controversial statements all the time, except in whatever magical reality deflecting enclave you've been hiding out in.
  2. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 6, 2011
    You went back too far. I didn't put yearly parameters on it, but if you look, I talk about the good old 90s. I am not talking about 50 years ago. And even if I was, censorship was a known quantity. When you sat down to write something, you knew you had to do mental gymnastics to get around it, but you could get around it. This isn't for-profit. This is hyper-competitive for-profit where an entertainment company is responsible to shareholders to gain each quarter and to gobble up as much media as they can in order to increase their share of the market. It's not 1,000 cable stations (1,000 managers, etc), it's 3-4 companies and they even own the equipment you are using to get television service. This isn't new, but the divided attention is. This was taking it piece-by-piece to show the whole picture, my previous post, I mean.

    My point is that they were ostracized and dismissed easily. Maher has a much smaller audience than he did before, and it shows on the show that he does now. Rush Limbaugh continues to lose sponsors since Sandra Fluke. My point is that you cannot say anything anymore that is controversial and all of those people, whether you like what they said or not, were not censoring themselves. In the 1990s, it blows up in the press a little, and ratings spike. I point to Howard Stern as an example. Now, we are deeply offended and don't want anyone, even in character, to be offensive.

    It started ten years ago. There's been a noticeable change in press coverage of stars, and its role in society (they've almost replaced newspapers). It was a story every day for 6-12 months.

    It's not the norm now.

    No, I would consider those shows ripoffs of All In the Family. I mean a show that pushes the creative and social boundaries.

    I agree. 1990s.

    Cheap shot. As a matter of fact, you're post is full of them. I consume fiction and choose from there whether it's intelligent or not. I have to sift through the crap too much.

    I think I addressed this above.

    And yet most of the things you find on youtube is not original content. If it's a song, it's a cover.

    I deserve this one. What I meant to say was nothing original. And look. The Wizard of Oz. Star Trek. GI Joe. Fast and the Furious. The Great Gatsby. The landscape is littered with characters that don't need to become part of our culture. They are already established and beloved.

    No. There's something in the NBA called the "Malice at the Palace." Since then, a dress code, players talking about killing the golden calf (Kobe Bryant), and stereotyped answers to everything. There was a player, Roy Hibbert, that came out and said "no homo" at a press conference. No one stepped up and called him out. No one. Jason Collins is the first gay athlete in professional sports to come out. Why isn't the landscape littered with athletes coming out of the closet? Where's that leadership? Phil Jackson said there are no gay basketball players. One has proved him wrong.

    It gets to my belief that for that much fame, you should come with something that better society. Just my opinion.

    And too many times they say nothing, and there's a hyper-sensitivity because it's a celebrity.
  3. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 9, 2009
    Thestral - Carmichael Industries
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."
    (Koheleth, 4th/5th Century BC)

    But again that's nothing new. Those characters are all less than 120 years old - how many time have we seen Scheherazade, Odysseus, or Robin Hood and Marian?

    Um, did you miss where Hibbert was fined $75K and apologized profusely (and apparently sincerely) within 24 hours of those remarks? Also, Jason Collins is the first active athlete in the "Big Four" of American sports to come out - a huge step, but not actually the first pro sportsperson to come out.
  4. The Wreath of Khan

    The Wreath of Khan Locutus of Bored Moderator

    Jul 5, 2004
    Rockin' 'Round the Moons of Nibia
    So when presented with counter-examples that prove your rose-tinted view of the past vs. your hyperbolic view of the present is wrong, you simply shift the goalposts and say you meant something else or those don't count because it's a "ripoff" or it doesn't count because it was in the 90s (Will and Grace was mostly in the 2000s, and it's hardly the last sitcom that dealt with depicting gays, but hey, that would defeat your point, wouldn't it?).

    :lol: Cheap shot? It was YOUR comment. I simply said speak for yourself and that I know plenty of people who consume intelligent fiction. It's continued widespread production and distribution proves there must be a market for it. Did it only begin being a cheap shot after you said it the first time? If you feel it's a cheap shot, maybe you shouldn't have said it yourself.
  5. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

    May 7, 2010
    which politicians? name some.

    why? it's been done. go watch it on dvd or something but don't presume that 'we' want to watch it along with you.

    this is a good thing. i don't want to sit through adverts or watch shows i have no interest in. the internet has solved those problems.

    failing to pull in the viewers are tv channels problem for not moving with the times, not ours. go tell them.

    Not. indie is mainstream now and there's fucking thousands of bands.

    and that second sentence: at least there were indie bands but they were all bad? eh?

    we also had shit like Stop! Or my mom will shoot! mmm innovative.

    :guffaw:because being disliked by a bunch of random people is totally worse than being targetted by a government witchhunt!
  6. Conscientious Consumer

    Conscientious Consumer Admiral Admiral

    Feb 12, 2011
    Taking up space
    Well, that tells me all I need to know, then. Only to one ignorant of history could that statement make sense.

    I suppose going for the Godwin, and saying it's worse than Hitler, would have been too obviously hyperbolic. As written, therefore, it has a greater aura of truthiness, doesn't it.

    Edit: Zing! I get the Godwin!
  7. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Mar 23, 2004
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    Someone start that Niemöller poem and get it over with.
  8. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Feb 28, 2005
    Challenging the status quo has never been the norm. The status quo IS the norm, that's what it means.

    Tremendously kind of you RJ :) My own standards would prevent that though, the vocal distortion has bugged me since day one. I actually purposefully added more distortion to make it seem like it was deliberate :lol:
  9. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 20, 2007
    inside teacake

    When they came for Britney I wasn't Britney so I left her alone!
  10. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

    Jun 20, 2003
    Bloom County
    They said, "Can't Touch This!", but I could touch it, so I did nothing...

  11. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Aug 8, 2006
    Brooklyn thestrangequark
    To be fair, when they came for Britney, it was because she really did need help.
  12. Owain Taggart

    Owain Taggart Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Nov 30, 2009
    Northern Ontario, Canada

    And we still do. In fact, I'd say that culture is even friendlier to Indie artists now more than it was in the 90's. You could in fact say that the indie artist was the underground, and now indie labels have popped up everywhere, and it's generally more accepted than it's ever been. With these labels, it's often indie artists helping indie artists, often producing music and expressing themselves musically in ways that don't generally appear in the mainstream. There's a lot to like out there if you look for it. In general, mainstream will only ever scrape the surface of what's out there.
  13. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Aug 8, 2006
    Brooklyn thestrangequark