Has the Doctor stumbled onto a way to bring back the (SPOILERS)

[Bacl]

SPOILERS for The Doctor's Wife...


Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it stand to reason that the Timelords who were killed by House were not part of the Time Lock that sealed up the Time War? Therefor, doesn't the Doctor now have access to quite a few Time Lords and possibly, possibly have a chance to bring them back?

Can't the Doctor return to the bubble universe and then travel back in time to before House killed, say, The Corsair, and attempt a rescue? It would be changing his own personal timeline, but the Corsair's death is not time locked and the Doctor has been able to muck about in timelines before.

House is obviously a very, very dangerous enemy, and by going back in time to when the Corsair was killed the Doctor too is in great danger. But it seems that the Doctor would have the advantage against House that time, and with a lot of planning and thought might just be able to save the Corsair from House, and then possibly the two of them could work towards rescuing the others. More Timelords (and their TARDIS') rescued, more bending of the rules and manipulating time to suit you.

Even if the Doctor absolutely positively CAN'T save the other Timelords from House, can he not still visit them and talk with them, being as they are NOT Timelocked?

The Doctor can't save Vincent Van Gogh from killing himself, but he can go back and chat with him. Can't he go back in time to BEFORE the Corsair (or the others) even ended up getting caught by House just to hang out and chat? Yeah, the Doctor is from the Corsair's future at that point and knows the Corsair is going to die and can't change it...but he still has access to another Timelord. Going back centuries before the Corsair gets killed gives the Doctor centuries hanging out with him.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Well, they didn't indicate that the pocket dimension (or whatever) collapsed or anything.

Though you could imagine it was being kept in place by Omeg...I mean House.

 

[Gepard]

Re the pocket universe collapsing, actually, they did. While Sexy and the Doctor were having their scrapyard argument, she said something to the effect of only having 18 minutes to live, and the pocket universe only having 3 hours until it collapsed. One assumes House's departure destabilized the whole thing or something.

 

[captcalhoun]

i don't think they're allowed to cross each other's time lines like that.

otherwise, why can't the Doctor run into the Monk, the Master or the Rani in an earlier incarnation?

since the Delgado Master was apparently the 13th (since he was trying to steal regenerations, he must've run out), why can't 11 run into an earlier 3rd, 1st or 6th Master?

either a) they can't cross their timelines like that or b) it's timey-wimey too far.

 

[Psion]

Re the pocket universe collapsing, actually, they did. While Sexy and the Doctor were having their scrapyard argument, she said something to the effect of only having 18 minutes to live, and the pocket universe only having 3 hours until it collapsed. One assumes House's departure destabilized the whole thing or something.

Three hours until it reached absolute zero -- which struck me as getting damned cold awfully damned fast. Given the implications of absolute zero, I'm perfectly happy to accept that as the point at which that universe collapses.

 

[Bacl]

It still shouldn't matter.

In theory, just going back in time in OUR universe would mean that the bubble universe would be in its own past as well, at a point before it reached absolute zero.

Is absolute zero a state of collapse? Science nerds, do explain.

In any case, if you are all saying that the element preventing the Doctor from trying to save the other Time Lords is the bubble universes collapse, then the only problem before him is getting back to the bubble universe before it collapsed. Again, the whole TIME MACHINE should help with that obstacle.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

11 discovered the remains. He cannot go back and save the others, because then he would not discover their remains, which would lead him back to save the others.

If he saves them, no remains to find to give him the thought to go save them.

 

[Psion]

It still shouldn't matter.

In theory, just going back in time in OUR universe would mean that the bubble universe would be in its own past as well, at a point before it reached absolute zero.

Is absolute zero a state of collapse? Science nerds, do explain.

In any case, if you are all saying that the element preventing the Doctor from trying to save the other Time Lords is the bubble universes collapse, then the only problem before him is getting back to the bubble universe before it collapsed. Again, the whole TIME MACHINE should help with that obstacle.

Right!

And all the Doctor has to do to hang out with Time Lords again is travel back to the 1970s and then go visit Gallifrey, right?

 

[Samson88B]

SPOILERS for The Doctor's Wife...


Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it stand to reason that the Timelords who were killed by House were not part of the Time Lock that sealed up the Time War? Therefor, doesn't the Doctor now have access to quite a few Time Lords and possibly, possibly have a chance to bring them back?

Can't the Doctor return to the bubble universe and then travel back in time to before House killed, say, The Corsair, and attempt a rescue? It would be changing his own personal timeline, but the Corsair's death is not time locked and the Doctor has been able to muck about in timelines before.

House is obviously a very, very dangerous enemy, and by going back in time to when the Corsair was killed the Doctor too is in great danger. But it seems that the Doctor would have the advantage against House that time, and with a lot of planning and thought might just be able to save the Corsair from House, and then possibly the two of them could work towards rescuing the others. More Timelords (and their TARDIS') rescued, more bending of the rules and manipulating time to suit you.

Even if the Doctor absolutely positively CAN'T save the other Timelords from House, can he not still visit them and talk with them, being as they are NOT Timelocked?

The Doctor can't save Vincent Van Gogh from killing himself, but he can go back and chat with him. Can't he go back in time to BEFORE the Corsair (or the others) even ended up getting caught by House just to hang out and chat? Yeah, the Doctor is from the Corsair's future at that point and knows the Corsair is going to die and can't change it...but he still has access to another Timelord. Going back centuries before the Corsair gets killed gives the Doctor centuries hanging out with him.

Regardless of how it is done.....Your point is what I have been thinking for the longest...Since the series was revived. If and only if, the producers and writers decide to bring the Time Lords back.....There is always some kind of Timey Wimey way of doing it... This episode proves it...There always seems to be something that should never happen that happens IE the parallel universe. I kind of think that if a new time lord would have come out of this episode that it would have been cheap in a sense...Because from a viewers perspective as well as the Doctor's..... A place existing out side of the universe seems just too easy IMHO. Surely the Doctor would be aware of all of these ways to be able to find more time lords if he wanted to.

 

[Samson88B]

It still shouldn't matter.

In theory, just going back in time in OUR universe would mean that the bubble universe would be in its own past as well, at a point before it reached absolute zero.

Is absolute zero a state of collapse? Science nerds, do explain.

In any case, if you are all saying that the element preventing the Doctor from trying to save the other Time Lords is the bubble universes collapse, then the only problem before him is getting back to the bubble universe before it collapsed. Again, the whole TIME MACHINE should help with that obstacle.

Here is the thing.....Theoretically a bubble universe should exist outside of everything we know, including our time line. So its entirely possible that going back in time in our universe may not necessarily match that of the bubble universe. Your original suggestion is correct though. Something existing outside of our known universe in the sense of this episode would be a very easy way to go out and "find time lords"

 

[Pauln6]

i don't think they're allowed to cross each other's time lines like that.

otherwise, why can't the Doctor run into the Monk, the Master or the Rani in an earlier incarnation?

since the Delgado Master was apparently the 13th (since he was trying to steal regenerations, he must've run out), why can't 11 run into an earlier 3rd, 1st or 6th Master?

either a) they can't cross their timelines like that or b) it's timey-wimey too far.

Or the obvious one - Susan. She spent years on Earth in the 22nd century. Not sure what happened to her after that...

 

[Yminale]

If the Timelords do come back, it's probably because some of them got trapped outside of the universe (placed there by Rassilon maybe) just like the Cult of Skaro survived the time war.

 

[Sci]

SPOILERS for The Doctor's Wife...


Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it stand to reason that the Timelords who were killed by House were not part of the Time Lock that sealed up the Time War? Therefor, doesn't the Doctor now have access to quite a few Time Lords and possibly, possibly have a chance to bring them back?

1. That pocket universe collapsed three relative hours after House departed. It's questionable whether the TARDIS could access it at any point in its history again.

2. Saving those Time Lords would interfere with the casual nexus. The death of those prior Time Lords is part of the history of that Universe that the Doctor interacted with, and changing it would probably cause giant bats to appear and eat everyone a la "Father's Day."

It would be changing his own personal timeline, but the Corsair's death is not time locked and the Doctor has been able to muck about in timelines before.

Yes, but the Doctor has, in the words of Steven Moffat, "a vast and terrible Time Brain" that lets him know when a given set of events can change without problem (i.e., the life of Karzan Sardick) and when a given set of events are a fixed point in time that cannot be altered without disastrous consequences. I'm sure that if it were possible to change the pocket universe's past and save those dead Time Lords, he would have.

Even if the Doctor absolutely positively CAN'T save the other Timelords from House, can he not still visit them and talk with them, being as they are NOT Timelocked?

We don't know how the Time Lock works. Personally, I think the Time Lock is something that erased the Time Lords from history, leaving only traces in the form of the Doctor and those Time Lords away from Gallifrey when he interacted with them, shunting them off into an alternate timeline wherein they all burned when he used the Moment. It's entirely possible that those Time Lords are still inaccessible, because their existences prior to entering the pocket universe are Time Locked (shunted off into that alternate timeline).

 

[starsuperion]

the time lock in itself can lead to the formation of an alternate time line, wherein those long dead time lords of war are the alternate, and the new formation of gallifrey as a force of good like the olden days.. remember, time can be rewritten..it is up to the writers and staff to decide that..I am hopeful we get a brand new time lord society back someday.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I'm not sure it works like that. Every event connected to the Time War is locked away. There are loose ends here and there, like The Doctor, Master, Cult of Skaro, etc.

To say nothing of the alternative to tampering with accessible events, which would be unlatching the Time Lock. The Nightmare Child, Deathsmiths of Goth, and Horde of Travesties all sound like lovely blokes to have over.

The worst way to bring the Time Lords back would be to open the literal Pandora's Box that is/was/will be the Time War. If the Doctor, Master, Cult of Skaro, and Davros can slip through the cracks and loopholes, then it isn't out of the question for Time Lord stragglers to show up.

 

[danellis]

As I understood the episode (which could well be wrong, because it differs from every other interpretation I've seen) the voices that we heard, and the boxes, weren't timelords they were "distress beacons."

In the cases we've seen the act of regeneration always protects the new doctor from whatever threat the previous one was suffering from.

My supposition is that each of those timelords dead from House and were regenerated back at Gallifrey (have we ever seen the Doctor regenerate away from Sexy?). Maybe that arm belonged to the 5th Corsair, whereas it was the 9th that fought in the timewar?

Is absolute zero a state of collapse? Science nerds, do explain.

Absolute zero is the temperature at which all movement stops, entirely. While an universe reaching absolute zero may not collapse in the sense of a balloon deflating (although I expect that would be the best/most likely image to be used), the result would be an utterly dead universe.

dJE

 

[Sindatur]

As I understood the episode (which could well be wrong, because it differs from every other interpretation I've seen) the voices that we heard, and the boxes, weren't timelords they were "distress beacons."

In the cases we've seen the act of regeneration always protects the new doctor from whatever threat the previous one was suffering from.

My supposition is that each of those timelords dead from House and were regenerated back at Gallifrey (have we ever seen the Doctor regenerate away from Sexy?). Maybe that arm belonged to the 5th Corsair, whereas it was the 9th that fought in the timewar?

Is absolute zero a state of collapse? Science nerds, do explain.

Absolute zero is the temperature at which all movement stops, entirely. While an universe reaching absolute zero may not collapse in the sense of a balloon deflating (although I expect that would be the best/most likely image to be used), the result would be an utterly dead universe.

dJE

On the boxes, yes, absolutely, they are a recorded SOS message, not the essence of their soul or anything. And, yea, I too got the impression from a few of the posts, that some people believe those are actual Time Lord Souls that can be released or something.

Regarding the regenerations, if a Time Lord is killed, and cut up for parts, no, I doubt he would magically regenerate on Gallifrey. If he regenerated, it would be before they had a chance disect him, I believe, and it would be right where he died

 

[RevdKathy]

The way the Doctor reacted when he received the box, I took it to be no more than a Time Lord version of post of email, except only used in an emergency. That cupboard made me think of the pain of receiving a letter from someone who has died.

 

[Starkers]

As I understood the episode (which could well be wrong, because it differs from every other interpretation I've seen) the voices that we heard, and the boxes, weren't timelords they were "distress beacons."

In the cases we've seen the act of regeneration always protects the new doctor from whatever threat the previous one was suffering from.

My supposition is that each of those timelords dead from House and were regenerated back at Gallifrey (have we ever seen the Doctor regenerate away from Sexy?). Maybe that arm belonged to the 5th Corsair, whereas it was the 9th that fought in the timewar?

Is absolute zero a state of collapse? Science nerds, do explain.

Absolute zero is the temperature at which all movement stops, entirely. While an universe reaching absolute zero may not collapse in the sense of a balloon deflating (although I expect that would be the best/most likely image to be used), the result would be an utterly dead universe.

dJE

I think you're mistaking Timelords for Cylons, and I don't think a regeneration protects a Timelord from threat, it just repairs the injury that caused death. If the Doctor was trapped in a locked room full of poison gas my understanding is he'd die then regenerate, then die then regenerate, then die then regenerate ad infinitum until either the poison gas dissapated or he'd used up all 507 lives

 

[matthunter]

I think you're mistaking Timelords for Cylons, and I don't think a regeneration protects a Timelord from threat, it just repairs the injury that caused death. If the Doctor was trapped in a locked room full of poison gas my understanding is he'd die then regenerate, then die then regenerate, then die then regenerate ad infinitum until either the poison gas dissapated or he'd used up all 507 lives

Or, as we saw not more than three episodes ago, if he's killed WHILST regenerating then he's dead for good.