Has "Supernatural" run its course?

[mswood]

Well frankly with all things its how you manage it.

For example the arc of season two wasn't killing Azazel but in Sam not losing himself.

One is the confrontation with (at the time) the biggest bad they knew, and the one that had such a dramatic impact on their entire life but the real focus on the full season was Sam staying true to himself and when giving the chance not to kill Jake.

Thats a rather small thing for the show, but for the character thats huge.

Of course, Dean had to go fuck that up...

So yeah trying to top Lucifer probably not the best thing as really their is only one real main stream supernatural being then lucifer, and I don't think they have the balls to go after God.

But I can certainly see the merit int he characters having to deal with their actions in stopping Heaven and Hell, both good and bad. And how all that they have gone through and lost both internally and externally could have a lot of dramatic possibility.

I dont know if the writers have the skills to attempt that though, I do think the actors have proven they can get inside the heads of their two characters.

 

[Thrall]

See I loved the ending to ANgel, it was all about the fight. Which is pretty much Angel's whole existence, you always fight.

This is why I didn't like it. Whedon loves to shit all over anything decent or established. He's a complete nihilist. Yeah, yeah I've heard the "He's really an existentialist!" excuse, but I''ve never bought it. Which is why he shit all over The Shanshu Prophecy and had all the main characters *probabbly* lose at the end. Which is why all of his characters relationships, both romantic and not, become complete messes. He also hates normal, human characters. Which is why Xander and Giles got the creative shaft rutinely. Which is why longtime soldiers(and the characters Angel fans actually gave a crap about) Gunn and Wes go out like bitches while Angel makes his last stand - not with his most trusted allies and companions - but with two quasi-evil Superfreaks who came late to the party. And who the longtime audience has no emotional attachment to. Those, of course, being Whedons favorite type of character. I promise you, if David Greenwalt had still been there the ending would have been much different. I probably would have enjoyed it.

This, in a nutshell, is why I prefer Supernatural to Buffy and Angel. Supernatural is about normal humans kicking Evil's ass. Buffy and Angel may have kind of started out that way, but it changed. Later on it became about The Morally Questionable Superpowered kicking Evil's ass. That whole Bad Guys vs Evil Guys thing. And WE, the normal humans, should have no say in the matter at all. Yes it was about fighting. But it was a fight normal people should have no part of. Supernatural is Batman or Iron Man, not to Whedon's Superman, but rather Whedon's Spawn.

But now I'm sounding like 3DMaster. So I better stop before the orderlies come to take me away.

As to the battle with lucifer, yeah I do agree trying to get a big bag to top that is futile, but (if they survive) picking up the pieces can be very interesting.

To use real life. For a ton of people the events of WW II were the sigle largest events of their life, yet that didn't diminish their struggles to deal with the aftermath.

Fair enough. There's still plenty of evil Big Bads from various cultures and mythologies they could explore. Although, then they'd risk being like SG1.

Of course I honestly (with proper time, again very key) have no problem with the devil taking two seasons to deal with (After all it took two years to kill Azazel).

If they go for 6 they'll probably do this.

 

[Skywalker]

Of course I honestly (with proper time, again very key) have no problem with the devil taking two seasons to deal with (After all it took two years to kill Azazel).

If they go for 6 they'll probably do this.

It also took them two years to

Spoiler: Supernatural Season Four

kill Lilith.

So, technically, dedicating two seasons to Lucifer would be in keeping with the rest of the show.

 

[mswood]

Of course I honestly (with proper time, again very key) have no problem with the devil taking two seasons to deal with (After all it took two years to kill Azazel).

If they go for 6 they'll probably do this.

It also took them two years to

Spoiler: Supernatural Season Four

kill Lilith.

So, technically, dedicating two seasons to Lucifer would be in keeping with the rest of the show.

True

 

[mswood]

Thrall

I do have problems with Angel's final season (though I think its far, far better then Buffy's), but the part that I liked was simply put the fact that whether Angel won or lost wasn't important. It was that he kept fighting.

I did hate that they got rid of the prophecy, even if it wasn't part of the start of the show, or the start of Angel. Nor was I bothered by Gunn being there at the end. I thought Wesley's death was appropriate (and I can never complain about how much that character had changed and developed).

Fred was never a favorite of mine (not that I disliked her) so I was never that bothered by her transformation. And as for Spike, that also didn't bother me, in the same way that I never minded Darla being a significant part of the 2nd and 3rd season. It's a character that he has tremendous history with, so in that didn't bother me.

In fact the only one I hated was what they did with Cordelia, hated that.

 

[Tulin]

Hee. Thrall needs to see all the remaining episodes

I think you mean Tulin.

 

[mswood]

Hee. Thrall needs to see all the remaining episodes

I think you mean Tulin.

Thats True.

 

[theenglish]

Okay, I admit that I havent read through the entire thread, but where has it been said that Season 5 will be the last. I really enjoyed this last season, even if there were a few too many "filler" episodes.

As for the Demons and Angels, my biggest problem with the storyline is that it spent a lot of time ripping off (at least in spirit) a number of other Demon and Angel storylines, In comics, especially, we have seen a similar story in Spawn, Hellblazer, Lucifer, and I am sure there are others.

I miss the show's original premise, that of tracking down urban legends and putting a new spin on them, and would like to see the show get back to that.

 

[mswood]

Okay, I admit that I havent read through the entire thread, but where has it been said that Season 5 will be the last. I really enjoyed this last season, even if there were a few too many "filler" episodes.

As for the Demons and Angels, my biggest problem with the storyline is that it spent a lot of time ripping off (at least in spirit) a number of other Demon and Angel storylines, In comics, especially, we have seen a similar story in Spawn, Hellblazer, Lucifer, and I am sure there are others.

I miss the show's original premise, that of tracking down urban legends and putting a new spin on them, and would like to see the show get back to that.

Well yes other forms of media have done Angel and Demon stories, but that is also try of every other supernatural creature they have faced.

And yes they are still dealing with urban legends, simply put there is no single larger urban myth then Heaven and Hell. And yes the show is presenting them in a way that does not fit with standard christian beliefs. Just as they have done with other supernatural creatures.

It isn't that the show was designed to present each supernatural entity in a new way, it was to show urban myths as they actually are (in this universe). Show they are showing in this case how the perceived beliefs in God and the devil don't actually match the real thing (again their universe).

As to the number of filler episodes, they tend to do the same number of episodes that directly hit each season arc each season (the one exception was season 3 due to the writers strike). But in fact this season did link each and every episode to the character arc of at least one of the brothers for each and every episode (the possible exception was the black and white one). So they have actually had a better then normal record.

 

[AJBryant]

Couple that with the terrible angels and demons storyline this year where angels act bad and demons act good(oh look - we're trendy Hollywood - aint we clever!!!)

That's exactly what I was bitchin' about a few weeks ago.

 

[Printheth]

Thrall
In fact the only one I hated was what they did with Cordelia, hated that.

I was completely aghast at what they did to Cordelia's character! I can't even watch the repeats of Angel eps after Connor comes back. They attempted to salvage it with her coma return, but damage was done.

As for Supernatural, I do like the morally questionable acts the boys committed, and the use of Angels as God's warriors and not the fluffy cherubs. It was an interesting take on it.

 

[mswood]

Okay, I admit that I havent read through the entire thread, but where has it been said that Season 5 will be the last. I really enjoyed this last season, even if there were a few too many "filler" episodes.

Opps I forgot to answer this. Kripke (the shows producer/Creator) has given multiple interviews about how he has planned out a 5 year arc for the show. He has also stated that he wants the show to go out on a good note (Quality wise, not talking happy ending though who knows). And has used shows like Smallville that truly has gone on longer then its intended premise.

He also only has a five year contract. The guys either have a 5 or 6 year contract. Both actors have said they can't see working on the show without Kripke.

But no one has ever said, I absolutely will not work after 5 seasons.

Some things for all of us to remember.

One most shows prepare in some form a 5 year plan (even if its just character arcs) when they pitch a show for development. As studios want to know that not only is the pilot good, but that the writer has a plan on how to keep a show going. Its exceedingly common.

Two this show has been (with the exception of this year) always been in serious danger of cancellation. So the whole crew has been very vocal about just hoping to get that five year story done. And really thats been a huge question for this show since the end of its first season.

So the fans (myself included) have always prayed for that goal. Let us be lucky enough to get that 5 years. We tend to take it as an absolute.

It really isn't.

The reality is this, rarely do producers give up their primary job (and this is Kripke's). Now there are many producers in hollywood who do start a show and then jump ship to another project (giving up their daily job while still being credited and being paid as an executive producer). Kripke so far hasn't been that type of producer, and I have yet to see strong evidence that he is in high demand.

There is already question on how many years the leads year contracted for. 6 is the most common number used this year. And both have given interviews saying that this might not be the end of the show.

The reality of it is the choice is the CW's.

The show is still not really hitting hard the 18-34 demo that the CW wants (though it has improved the most out of their renewed shows). It has increased in both total viewers, and all three primary demo groups (the only cw show that can say that, in fact it might be the only network scripted show that can say that this year).

A sixth season depends on a few things. Is the CW still in business (and that is always in question, always). How well does the show perform in its 5th year, and then how does the rest of the lineup fair.

If the CW is still around and the rest of the lineup does really well and Supernatural takes a hit, the 5th year will most likely be the natural end of the show.

If the CW is around and the show holds or shows growth and the rest of the line up does well, the show will most likely be back for a 6th year.

If the Cw is around and the show holds or grows and the rest of the lineup disappoints, then absolutely no question the show will continue.

As much as the CW doesn't get Supernatural they do find that the producers are able to generate a successful show with a budget that keeps getting cut. A show that they can for the most part not bother with. And one that is very successful (by CW standards) on DVD (2nd best sales) and in overseas markets (either 2nd or 1st).

If it plays out that there is a business reason in keeping it for a sixth season will Kripke stay with the show? I honestly think he will. NO matter what it is still his baby. Do I think he would do it forever? Absolutely not. But I can see him doing 6.

The cast really doesn't have much choice if contracted, if they still want to have good reputations for there future.

 

[theenglish]

Thanks for that Mswood, a thorough answer.

I would certainly love the show to stick around for a couple of more seasons.

 

[mswood]

Thanks for that Mswood, a thorough answer.

I would certainly love the show to stick around for a couple of more seasons.

My primary concern whether it goes one or two (I don't even want to think about more) more season is that the writers are given enough time to plan things out.

The real problem I see is if they don't get a fairly early sense of the shows future in the Fall, that they don't plan out the season (s) appropriately.

In other words I don't want them to plan out and produce 20 episodes all geared to teh show ending then at the last moment they get a 6th season renewal. That will force teh writers into a serious rethinking of how to proceed.

But they also can't plan out the season hoping for a season 6 and then get its legs cutout from underneath them.

Hopefully by (no later then) the end of November sweeps they will have a solid idea on 1. How they are doing in the ratings, and 2. How the rest of the lineup is doing in the ratings to get a better idea on what to plan for the end of this season.

Now they have twice before radically had to chance things (but both were after the mid point of the season and not at the last minute.

The first was when they decided to shorten the Special Kids Story line of season 2 (It was supposed to go longer), and then obviously having to shoehorn the ending of season 3 in when the writers strike happened.

One of the things I really regretted was that we didn't get to see Sam's obsession to save Dean really progress in a natural way, and that was all due to having to skip roughly 8 episodes of slow development and have it occur in one episode.

It was a good episode (in fact I think it was a great episode), but the character aspect of it did suffer.

They then also have the concern that they could do great in the ratings and the rest of the lineup could keep sliding, plan out for a season 6 and end up with the CW folding. It is a real and legitimate concern.

 

[Supreme Admiral]

Okay, I admit that I havent read through the entire thread, but where has it been said that Season 5 will be the last. I really enjoyed this last season, even if there were a few too many "filler" episodes.

A sixth season depends on a few things. Is the CW still in business (and that is always in question, always). How well does the show perform in its 5th year, and then how does the rest of the lineup fair.

The CW won't be around much longer. They won't be making it until 2020's decade. Trust me on this one. I just know it.

 

[sidious618]

Having just watched the final five episodes tonight I can tell you that it most certainly has not.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I agree with sidious; they hit all the right notes with the final five eppies. Tulin, Thrall, Tulin, Thrall....

Kripke (the shows producer/Creator) has given multiple interviews about how he has planned out a 5 year arc for the show. He has also stated that he wants the show to go out on a good note (Quality wise, not talking happy ending though who knows). And has used shows like Smallville that truly has gone on longer then its intended premise.

He also only has a five year contract. The guys either have a 5 or 6 year contract. Both actors have said they can't see working on the show without Kripke.

But no one has ever said, I absolutely will not work after 5 seasons.

True, but Jensen did say in the EW cover article that the CW would have to back up the Brinks truck to the door filled with money to get him for a sixth, and Jared was pretty emphatic that they want to go out with the audience wanting more, not with the audience thinking they'd done too much. It's not that either of them are arrogant; they're just being honest in that they care about the show's content and that it's hard to be away from their families (in Jensen's case, his sort of fiancée) for 9 months out of the year in Vancouver. Let's face it--Dawn O and the suits aren't going to back up the Brinks truck. They cut the budget for this season, and they haven't increased the budget for next season in spite of the ratings increase. You're right. For some reason, SPN doesn't hit the 18-34 female demo in the Nielsen households, so the CW isn't going to pony up a dime. If it ain't young fans with boobs, the CW doesn't care. It's going to follow that formula into bankruptcy court. In fact, have they cut the budget for next fall? Maybe not cutting it is the CW's sign of "love."

The most zealous of the fangirls would like to go back to the season one formula--don't ask me why. I don't think they can go back. At some point the show became more about the characters than the urban legends. Kripke went with his strengths. I can appreciate that. I'm very leery of them trying to produce the show without him. I hope that Jensen and Jared say "no" to season six. I hope they have the option to say no. If that leaves Dawn O and the CW suits twisting in the wind, too bad.

 

[sidious618]

Yeah, it'd be best if next season was their last, I feel.

 

[Othello]

Angels ARE NOT fuzzy and warm creatures. Have you never read the bible?

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Angels ARE NOT fuzzy and warm creatures. Have you never read the bible?

No, I've no reason to. I've been spoilered on the ending... Something like the butler did it, right?