Fair enough. It's not her fault the episodes were forgettable.
Has Doctor Who become too white?
- Thread starter Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Fair enough. It's not her fault the episodes were forgettable.
Did the real world FBI ever kick out an agent for being gay?
How about Colin Salmon? Eamonn Walker? Chiwetel Ejiofor?
I wouldn't call Indians a "minority" in this context, given that globally, there are more South Asians than Caucasians. Where the human race as a whole is concerned, white people are a minority, making up only about 1/6 of the species. And since there are nearly as many black people as white people, it's rather disingenuous to apply the word "minority' only to the former.
I don't want Clyde and Rani back because they're nonwhite, although I think it's cool that they are. I want them back because they're good characters played by appealing, talented actors.
Actually it didn't start out that way. If you look at the early episodes, Travis was featured as heavily as any of the second-tier actors. It was only in seasons 2-3 that he began to get back-burnered for whatever reason. I've often wondered if his rather unimpressive performance in the climax of "Fortunate Son" was the reason. He was good at playing a fun, easygoing guy, but when called upon for something more dramatic, he didn't quite pull it off, not in that episode at least.
"Should?" Aren't you contradicting yourself? First you say you don't approve of casting based on race alone, and then you say you think they should be required to cast according to racial quotas. It's no more right to consciously hew to the existing proportions than it is to intentionally overrepresent one race or the other. They're equally arbitrary.
I doubt it's safe to assume that actors are statistically representative of the general population. I think the theatrical and media professions tend to attract people who stand out from the crowd, or who don't necessarily fit in anywhere except the fraternity of performers. That's why there have historically been so many LGBT people in the industry, for instance.
And I'd argue that characters aren't statistically representative of the norm either. The casts of movies and TV shows tend to represent our ideals rather than our everyday reality.That generally means they're better-looking than the norm and the characters are richer and more successful than the norm. In the past, casts have been idealized by lacking ethnic diversity; but attitudes have shifted to the point that perhaps the modern ideal is a more diverse population than the ones most of us encounter in everyday life. I think I read recently about a study showing that audiences respond more positively to shows with diverse casts, finding them more interesting to watch. That's certainly true of me.
^ And if he ever did play the Doctor, I'm sure that would get a lot of viewer ratings.
Or in another phrasing: It'd be Salmon-chanted evening.
Or in another phrasing: It'd be Salmon-chanted evening.
The context is BBC television.
There was one high-profile story of an FBI agent fired for being gay. Frank Buttino was fired in 1990 because his sexuality made him susceptible to blackmail, according to the this LA Times article: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-08-30/local/me-118_1_gay-rights
Buttino later wrote a book about his time at the FBI, hiding his homosexuality and later being fired for it: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1331097.A_Special_Agent
Seems odd, but there was a time when being gay was seen as a security risk in the US because it was wrongly believed that a homosexual could be more easily blackmailed. During the Lavender Scare of the 1950s, government employees were fired en masse for being gay. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_scare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_10450
http://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/404811in.html
That wrong belief that homosexuals were a security risk also prevented LGBTs from serving openly in the military. It wasn't until recently that they've been able to serve. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell
http://www.sfbg.com/2009/11/25/448s-war#! (Note: I wrote this story.)
Probably more in-depth than you wanted, but wanted to cover the bases for others who might have a similar question.
Probably more in-depth than you wanted, but wanted to cover the bases for others who might have a similar question.
Naw, it's ok. I did ask, after all. I knew about Don't Ask / Don't Tell but not the other thing.
And on an unrelated matter, I just thought of something: There are characters named 'River Song' (whom I already knew about, even though like I said I've never seen the new show) and 'Canton Delaware'. Canto(n) = a song, and Delaware is a river. Is there a connection?
Well they are a minority in terms of the British population which is the only relevant point here unless you think the BBC are going to hire Asian actors en masse from various countries across the would.
Actually there is evidence in Britain at least that Asians are under represented in the acting profession - lack of support from parents and the barrier of the large amount of historical drama produced in the UK being given as reasons.
As far as I know, there's nothing wrong with ratings or sales. The recent 3D movie in theaters almost had a higher gross than a 100+ million dollar Hollywood blockbuster for that day.
Why "fix" what isn't broken? Chasing minority demos gives minority results. And people in China aren't going to buy Doctor Who when they love bootlegging so much.
Why "fix" what isn't broken? Chasing minority demos gives minority results. And people in China aren't going to buy Doctor Who when they love bootlegging so much.
The show is British, but it's not set exclusively in Britain. It's set throughout all of space and time. So it's only reasonable to expect it to represent the full diversity of the human species, not the demographics of Britain alone.
All the more reason to encourage more inclusion rather than just throwing up our hands and saying, "Well, this is the way it's always been so it will always be that way."
It's nonsense to say that things can't change when Russell T. Davies has already shown us in his three Who-universe series just how diverse the casting in UK shows can be. All it takes is the willingness to make the effort rather than making excuses.
Ok well if you want to have a word with Equity and get them to agree to the BBC hiring a huge proportion of actors from other countries to reflect the world's diversity. While you're at it get the Daily Mail not to kick up an almighty fuss if they ever tried it.
Thankfully it's such a stupid idea they would never try it.
And I didn't say there shouldn't be an attempt at diversity just backing up the point that the British acting community is possibly even more white than the British population as a whole. I completely appreciated the RTD's era attempt to reflect the diversity of Britain as the show should.
Thankfully it's such a stupid idea they would never try it.
And I didn't say there shouldn't be an attempt at diversity just backing up the point that the British acting community is possibly even more white than the British population as a whole. I completely appreciated the RTD's era attempt to reflect the diversity of Britain as the show should.
It's possible to love something, think something works but still want it to be better. Even if it isn't broke, you can still see where it can be improved. This is just one area.
Agree. It shouldn't be done to check marks on a box, fill a quota. Or lest you get an episode like TNG's "Code of Honor," and we know how that turned out. But it's something that the production staff should be conscious of, and consider as they cast. And I would like to see more female writers as well.
It is a mistake to assume that only "minority" viewers like watching diverse casts. That's not what the evidence shows. Inclusion is good for everyone.
I said it gives a minority return. In other words, it doesn't make much of a difference at all.
What is this evidence you speak of? Is there truly any production left that's a control group for white only? Everything has diversity now; people have no choice. How could any reliable test of success be performed?
I'd prefer a more diverse cast. I'm not generally considered a minority. Should we start polling people?
True in so far that in the RTD era we have 60 episodes and so far in the SM era we've had 42 episodes. So there is still plenty of time for another compaion or two to come. I wouldn't be suprised if we see another new companion added at some point in the next season.
And the UK in general, although they're less a minority than black Brits.
At the end of the day I'm the man who's wanted Paterson Joseph to be Doctor Who since the 90s, and who'd have loved to see Alex Siddig in the role and who'd be chuffed to bits if Clyde and Rani returned, all I'm saying is that people shouldn't just be cast because of their ethnicity, and that, in particular when dealing with episodes set in contemporary (and historical) Britain, the show should reflect reality.
Seriously? Kangaroos are not a minority in Virginia?
