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Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince - Grading and Discussion
- Thread starter Chekov's Phaser
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I found it enjoyable, but not nearly as much as the book. I'm finding these later books don't make great movies, probably because I don't like cliffhangers. For a movie, there should be some element that stands alone, even if the arc goes on.
And you just can't do that with this story.
So far, Prisoner of Azkaban reamins the best example of a fine movie. The rest are increasingly less faithful adaptions (not that a good adaption makes a good movie).
And you just can't do that with this story.
So far, Prisoner of Azkaban reamins the best example of a fine movie. The rest are increasingly less faithful adaptions (not that a good adaption makes a good movie).
Actually, I think you could have done that with this movie -- if, for example, the whole "relationships" main plot been about finding true friends/true loves and learning to never put living life aside, no matter how dark the circumstances might be. There are some elements of that to this story, but it isn't a fully realized arc. Had the film done that, not only would it have found a way to mesh the romance elements with the main story, it would have that "element that stands alone."
But, alas, they didn't seize upon that opportunity.
I absolutely agree that Azkaban is the best film. It, too, is an adaptation. But it manages to fully meld all of its elements together into a coherent whole, unlike the films 4-6. Though, for what it's worth, 6 was the best film since Azkaban.
I find that interesting since I personally found the third movie to be the worst on an enjoyment level with 4 being the best. Perhaps in the case of the third I just couldn't get into the plot but I really didn't like it and I felt as if I was lost half the time. I would put 6 as my second favorite behind the 4th ( I didn't really like the 5th one either). I remember when I saw the third one it was during my first date with my current girlfriend and I almost felt like getting up and leaving the theater 
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
HBP is a great book due to the history of Voldie.
I saw it last night and I voted "Average" in the poll, although in retrospect, I might should have let it eke out an "Above Average."
Generally, I enjoyed it...it is an improvement over 4 and 5, but still not as coherent and as tightly plotted as 3. I loved the look of the film, but it just felt a little hollow to me. I can't put my finger on it...but it just wasn't "satisfying". I understand that stuff has to be cut for a film adaptation, but the movie just felt disjointed, like it was cobbled together.
On the other hand, I think that the acting performances of ALL the students in this one is light years ahead of all the rest of the films. You can really tell that Daniel Radcliffe is maturing as an actor. I guess the professional stage experience is paying off in spades...and for once, Tom Felton didn't seem to be reading his lines of a cue card off camera. He was wonderful in what relatively little screen time he had.
Although I'd have liked to have seen a better put together story, I enjoyed the film on the strength of the performances by all of the actors...and for the record, I do enjoy the book version of HBP...
Right now, I'd put the films in this order: 3<1<6<5<2<4
Generally, I enjoyed it...it is an improvement over 4 and 5, but still not as coherent and as tightly plotted as 3. I loved the look of the film, but it just felt a little hollow to me. I can't put my finger on it...but it just wasn't "satisfying". I understand that stuff has to be cut for a film adaptation, but the movie just felt disjointed, like it was cobbled together.
On the other hand, I think that the acting performances of ALL the students in this one is light years ahead of all the rest of the films. You can really tell that Daniel Radcliffe is maturing as an actor. I guess the professional stage experience is paying off in spades...and for once, Tom Felton didn't seem to be reading his lines of a cue card off camera. He was wonderful in what relatively little screen time he had.
Although I'd have liked to have seen a better put together story, I enjoyed the film on the strength of the performances by all of the actors...and for the record, I do enjoy the book version of HBP...
Right now, I'd put the films in this order: 3<1<6<5<2<4
It's very complicated, and like everyone who read the books, when Snape killed him, we were all as shocked as you. But to spoil it for you (in spoiler tags, so don't read it if you don't want to find out!)
Snape is a triple agent. The scene where Dumbledore was speaking to Snape in the astrology tower when Harry walked in, he was asking Snape to kill him as he was cursed by the ring we also see and only has a year to live. He knows of Drako's mission and asks Snape to save Drakos soul by doing it, to which he eventually agrees.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
All right, here's my take:
The style, the mood of the movie was absolutely wonderful but the plot and the pacing was disjointed and very...bland.
I don't know. It started off very disorganized and very random and it didn't get much better than that.
There are elements of the book but it is becoming apparent the book and the movie are two almost separate entities now. It's hard though for a movie to take a book that has so many focuses and tries to put in a movie.
Also given what they cut out, I wonder what they are going to remove from DH
The style, the mood of the movie was absolutely wonderful but the plot and the pacing was disjointed and very...bland.
I don't know. It started off very disorganized and very random and it didn't get much better than that.
There are elements of the book but it is becoming apparent the book and the movie are two almost separate entities now. It's hard though for a movie to take a book that has so many focuses and tries to put in a movie.
Also given what they cut out, I wonder what they are going to remove from DH
I'm not quite sure how to rank it. I loved the overall style and character moments, but felt they cut quite a bit of plot; however, the last time I re-read the book, I was struck by how plotless it actually was, so honestly I don't really care too much over what was excised, and the rest was streamlined very well. My only real disappointment is the cutting of the Voldemort backstory, as it gave the final sequence in the cave far more meaning, and I kind of missed the Dumbledore funeral scene.
9/10.
Would have been 10, had the attack at the end been more like the book, as the screen version is curiously lacklustre. OTOH, it might have got less if I was a casual viewer and hadn't read all the books...
Still, way better than OotP, and better than the book too. The acting was all to the good, and Daniel Radcliffe as Harry is really likeable in a way the book version isn't quite. I mean in the books we're told he's likeable but can't really judge for ourselves. The various social elements and romances are well handled also.
And I'd definitely do Bellatrix. Oh yeah.
Would have been 10, had the attack at the end been more like the book, as the screen version is curiously lacklustre. OTOH, it might have got less if I was a casual viewer and hadn't read all the books...
Still, way better than OotP, and better than the book too. The acting was all to the good, and Daniel Radcliffe as Harry is really likeable in a way the book version isn't quite. I mean in the books we're told he's likeable but can't really judge for ourselves. The various social elements and romances are well handled also.
And I'd definitely do Bellatrix. Oh yeah.
It's been awhile since I've read the book, so I don't remember all that was taken out. I will say that as a movie onto itself, I thought it was well acted and filmed. The scene in the cave was heartbreaking and scaring just like in the book, but the finale of the movie seemed so timid.
As others have pointed out, the movie lacked the battle at Hogwarts. I suppose they are saving that kind of action for DH, but I loved the idea in the book that while this big battle was going on, Harry was single minded in seeking out Snape. I would have kept the battle, but make it the background, so that while all hell is breaking loose, we are still focused on Harry's vengeance.
As others have pointed out, the movie lacked the battle at Hogwarts. I suppose they are saving that kind of action for DH, but I loved the idea in the book that while this big battle was going on, Harry was single minded in seeking out Snape. I would have kept the battle, but make it the background, so that while all hell is breaking loose, we are still focused on Harry's vengeance.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
You have to have a good book to start with, and HBP and DH are TERRIBLE books.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Rowling could have done ONE exposition dump...er..."special lesson with Dumbledoore"...and given us that and spent the rest of the time having Harry actually taught something USEFUL for fighting Voldie and the DEs.
And don't get me started on the "romances"....Ginny (aka the "Potions Princess"), who has been a cipher the previous five books and all of a sudden Harry has the raging jealous monster reaction to seeing her with another? Remember how Molly said the "had to help" Arthur along?
And Ron/Hermione? GAHHHHHHKKK! (aka the "puke smilie"). NO basis. Ron is an ASS (and proves it in the next book for sure, as if it weren't clear enough). But Hermione is all over him like a rash? The SAME Hermione that almost told Harry she loved him WAY back in book one?
Rowling is a good "world builder", and her writing style is very evocative. But her plot logic is paper thin at best, and her sense of character dynamics is utter crap. HBP is the first book where Rowling's pluses no longer total more than her minuses.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
Rowling could have done ONE exposition dump...er..."special lesson with Dumbledoore"...and given us that and spent the rest of the time having Harry actually taught something USEFUL for fighting Voldie and the DEs.
And don't get me started on the "romances"....Ginny (aka the "Potions Princess"), who has been a cipher the previous five books and all of a sudden Harry has the raging jealous monster reaction to seeing her with another? Remember how Molly said the "had to help" Arthur along?
And Ron/Hermione? GAHHHHHHKKK! (aka the "puke smilie"). NO basis. Ron is an ASS (and proves it in the next book for sure, as if it weren't clear enough). But Hermione is all over him like a rash? The SAME Hermione that almost told Harry she loved him WAY back in book one?
Rowling is a good "world builder", and her writing style is very evocative. But her plot logic is paper thin at best, and her sense of character dynamics is utter crap. HBP is the first book where Rowling's pluses no longer total more than her minuses.
You don't think those were useful? I saw a lot of useful things that Dumbledore was teaching Harry.
And I liked the romances personally. They balanced out the book very well.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
By having him watch "This is your life, Voldemort" for the better part of a YEAR? A year that could have been spent teaching Harry spells and battle tactics and USEFUL things for fighting the DEs and their boss?
No, I don't think they were "useful". I think that Rowling was too busy swinging her "pawn of fate" theme hammer to understand that she was making her characters look like idiots. She'd been doing it for five books at that point, but here, in book six, with NOTHING else going on for much of the book she can't hide it in the background.
Noting against the romances IF they were properly paired. Ginny/Harry has NO basis in the prior five books other than Ginny's stalker-crush on Harry. He shows ZERO interest in her until "magically" in book six he gets all jealous and crap over her. Again, remember how Molly got Arthur...
And Ron/Hermione is even WORSE. I have never seen such a badly matched pair in fiction. Ron is crude, slothful, arrogant, jealous and ultimately disloyal. He has NOTHING to offer a bright, well educated, well-bred young lady like Hermione.
It's obvious that Rowling was setting up Harry/Hermione in the first book with Hermione's almost declaration to Harry in the catacomb trials. Hermione is the obvious parallel to Lily, both of them being the brightest witches of their respective generations.
Then Rowling in a fit of stupidity dumps all that in favor of "oh, GINNY has red hair so she MUST be Harry's perfect match"...(again with the "puke smilie")
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Impressive how it proves conclusively that popularity=/=quality...
My thoughts on the movie...
By and large, I did enjoy it. As entertainment goes, it might have been the most consistently entertaining of the movies. My problem with the film was that some of the book scenes did not translate well. First though...
THE GOOD:
-The big three. Radcliffe, Grint, and Watson have gotten even better and their chemistry is great. It's the little things I appreciated. The bit with Harry and Ron fighting over the potions book was funny. Harry and Ron finishing Hermione's sentence about going to the library is another example. The character interaction is strong throughout, no matter what the pair is.
-Slughorn. Jim Broadbent was terrific, really bringing the character alive. Thought he was a little sluggish (no pun intended) during the opening sequence although I loved that they kept the chair bit in the film. His character got stronger as the movie went on and did some of the films best acting in the scene where he agrees to give Harry the final memory. That bit about Lily and the fish was touching and was probably the best addition into the film. Steve Kloves gets a point on that one but that's about the only point I'll give him.
-Gambon as DD. I've never been a big fan of Gambon in the role because he played the character too damn seriously with little of DD's eccentricities. This was the first movie in which I thought he really did a good job bringing DD to life. His DD is subdued but is effective.
-Evanna Lynch was fun again as Luna. Another change from the book that worked was her being the one to find Harry on the train. Wish we had seen her reaction to Harry asking her to the Christmas party. I always liked that scene. The two actors playing young Tom Riddle were good, especially the older one. Tom Riddle is played a lot more subtlely here than he is in the HBP film, where he is so over-the-top evil as a child that it made DD look like a fool to even agree to take him into Hogwarts. Bonnie Wright was fine as Ginny. I don't know who the actor is who played Cormac McLaggen but he was pretty damn funny and the audience laughed with him just about every time he was on screen. Expanding the role of Bellatrix in this film was a good idea and Carter nails it with her deranged antics at the end of the film.
-Quidditch. If you want to see how good the FX has gotten since book one, just look at the Quidditch scene and all the lush detail in the background. This segment was a lot of fun.
-Dumbledore's flaming wand (had to work that joke in) during the Inferi scene was impressive.
-Like I said, the movie was a lot of fun with all the character interactions and so on. But...
The BAD.
-I mentioned earlier that some scenes didn't translate well from the book. The Harry/Draco confrontation has no consequences whatsoever. Harry just walks out after the duel and little is said. Probably the biggest disappointment was the end sequence. Between all the questionable decisions (no Battle at Hogwarts, Harry doing nothing at the end), the worst part had to be the confrontation between Harry and Snape. This is supposed to be an emotionally charged scene. Radcliffe does well for his part but Rickman plays the scene so dispassionately that he literally kills it. Seriously, this is Snape's biggest scene in the first six books and Rickman literally sleepwalks through it. Snape is supposed to be beside himself with rage when Harry starts taunting him but you couldn't have gotten emotion out of Rickman if you tazed him.
-Speaking of bad decisions...why the hell did they cut the DD funeral out of the movie? I wasn't expecting a 20-minute scene with everyone coming back but they could have easily inserted that into the film and still ended it with Harry, Ron, and Hermione but instead, the filmmakers decided to do a bad version of a great scene in the movies. DD's death has no emotional impact whatsoever and the producers seem eager to move on from it as quickly as possible. Probably the most emotional moment in the end was McGonagall telling Harry that he meant a great deal to DD.
-Speaking of bad translations...the Harry/Ginny kiss. It's a great scene in the book with Harry finally taking the iniative. In the movie, it's God-awful. Again, the filmmakers take a great book scene and intentionally decide to do a much crappier one. Add to that Ginny looks like one of those crazy girlfriends who is trying to hide the evidence for her murderer boyfriend.
-Speaking of the Half Blood Prince, could that subplot have been anymore downplayed in this film?
-Don't get me wrong. It's nice to see Harry happy in this film. Sometimes I think it must cause JK Rowling physical pain to write Harry being happy for more than two pages. But you get no sense of the pressure he is facing in this film as he looks to fulfill his destiny. All you get is lip service about it.
-Fenrir Greyback...or should I say Wolverine Sabertooth? I always pictured Greyback looking like an old trample. Straggly hair, dirty, and sinster-looking. Book Greyback was far scarier without the Wolverine look. Nothing in the film could be as scary as Greyback's HBP line "You know how much I like children, Dumbledore."
I try to remember the book and movie are too different things. By and large, it's a very entertaining movie.
By and large, I did enjoy it. As entertainment goes, it might have been the most consistently entertaining of the movies. My problem with the film was that some of the book scenes did not translate well. First though...
THE GOOD:
-The big three. Radcliffe, Grint, and Watson have gotten even better and their chemistry is great. It's the little things I appreciated. The bit with Harry and Ron fighting over the potions book was funny. Harry and Ron finishing Hermione's sentence about going to the library is another example. The character interaction is strong throughout, no matter what the pair is.
-Slughorn. Jim Broadbent was terrific, really bringing the character alive. Thought he was a little sluggish (no pun intended) during the opening sequence although I loved that they kept the chair bit in the film. His character got stronger as the movie went on and did some of the films best acting in the scene where he agrees to give Harry the final memory. That bit about Lily and the fish was touching and was probably the best addition into the film. Steve Kloves gets a point on that one but that's about the only point I'll give him.
-Gambon as DD. I've never been a big fan of Gambon in the role because he played the character too damn seriously with little of DD's eccentricities. This was the first movie in which I thought he really did a good job bringing DD to life. His DD is subdued but is effective.
-Evanna Lynch was fun again as Luna. Another change from the book that worked was her being the one to find Harry on the train. Wish we had seen her reaction to Harry asking her to the Christmas party. I always liked that scene. The two actors playing young Tom Riddle were good, especially the older one. Tom Riddle is played a lot more subtlely here than he is in the HBP film, where he is so over-the-top evil as a child that it made DD look like a fool to even agree to take him into Hogwarts. Bonnie Wright was fine as Ginny. I don't know who the actor is who played Cormac McLaggen but he was pretty damn funny and the audience laughed with him just about every time he was on screen. Expanding the role of Bellatrix in this film was a good idea and Carter nails it with her deranged antics at the end of the film.
-Quidditch. If you want to see how good the FX has gotten since book one, just look at the Quidditch scene and all the lush detail in the background. This segment was a lot of fun.
-Dumbledore's flaming wand (had to work that joke in) during the Inferi scene was impressive.
-Like I said, the movie was a lot of fun with all the character interactions and so on. But...
The BAD.
-I mentioned earlier that some scenes didn't translate well from the book. The Harry/Draco confrontation has no consequences whatsoever. Harry just walks out after the duel and little is said. Probably the biggest disappointment was the end sequence. Between all the questionable decisions (no Battle at Hogwarts, Harry doing nothing at the end), the worst part had to be the confrontation between Harry and Snape. This is supposed to be an emotionally charged scene. Radcliffe does well for his part but Rickman plays the scene so dispassionately that he literally kills it. Seriously, this is Snape's biggest scene in the first six books and Rickman literally sleepwalks through it. Snape is supposed to be beside himself with rage when Harry starts taunting him but you couldn't have gotten emotion out of Rickman if you tazed him.
-Speaking of bad decisions...why the hell did they cut the DD funeral out of the movie? I wasn't expecting a 20-minute scene with everyone coming back but they could have easily inserted that into the film and still ended it with Harry, Ron, and Hermione but instead, the filmmakers decided to do a bad version of a great scene in the movies. DD's death has no emotional impact whatsoever and the producers seem eager to move on from it as quickly as possible. Probably the most emotional moment in the end was McGonagall telling Harry that he meant a great deal to DD.
-Speaking of bad translations...the Harry/Ginny kiss. It's a great scene in the book with Harry finally taking the iniative. In the movie, it's God-awful. Again, the filmmakers take a great book scene and intentionally decide to do a much crappier one. Add to that Ginny looks like one of those crazy girlfriends who is trying to hide the evidence for her murderer boyfriend.
-Speaking of the Half Blood Prince, could that subplot have been anymore downplayed in this film?
-Don't get me wrong. It's nice to see Harry happy in this film. Sometimes I think it must cause JK Rowling physical pain to write Harry being happy for more than two pages. But you get no sense of the pressure he is facing in this film as he looks to fulfill his destiny. All you get is lip service about it.
-Fenrir Greyback...or should I say Wolverine Sabertooth? I always pictured Greyback looking like an old trample. Straggly hair, dirty, and sinster-looking. Book Greyback was far scarier without the Wolverine look. Nothing in the film could be as scary as Greyback's HBP line "You know how much I like children, Dumbledore."
I try to remember the book and movie are too different things. By and large, it's a very entertaining movie.
