Harlan Ellison
- Thread starter TiberiusK
- Start date
People,
In general, I think Harlan Ellison is both a genius and a jackass. He's both a brilliant writer and a person so arrogant he's unable to discern the difference between how he would like things to be and how they really are. If you think about it, both aspects of his personality go hand-in-hand. He wouldn't be brilliant if he wasn't arrogant, and his arrogance fuels his brilliance.
Here's another thought: I used to be a journalist and dealt with freelance writers, sometimes on a regular basis. I'm now a freelancer and on the other side. From my experience, I can see why Ellison and Rodenberry clashed, because I've been both of them: the editor trying to meet a deadline, frustrated with an intransigent writer; and the writer disagreeing with what I considered to be superficial and unnecessary changes to my work.
Basically, it's the age-old conflict between editor and writer. Each needs the other, but often clash because of differences in approach.
Red Ranger
In general, I think Harlan Ellison is both a genius and a jackass. He's both a brilliant writer and a person so arrogant he's unable to discern the difference between how he would like things to be and how they really are. If you think about it, both aspects of his personality go hand-in-hand. He wouldn't be brilliant if he wasn't arrogant, and his arrogance fuels his brilliance.
Here's another thought: I used to be a journalist and dealt with freelance writers, sometimes on a regular basis. I'm now a freelancer and on the other side. From my experience, I can see why Ellison and Rodenberry clashed, because I've been both of them: the editor trying to meet a deadline, frustrated with an intransigent writer; and the writer disagreeing with what I considered to be superficial and unnecessary changes to my work.
Basically, it's the age-old conflict between editor and writer. Each needs the other, but often clash because of differences in approach.
Red Ranger
from what i've heard, HE is a loud-mouthed arrogant asswipe with an over-inflated sense of his own genius.
but i never met the bloke and don't think i'd care to.
but i never met the bloke and don't think i'd care to.
To all the people who have responded, out of curiosity, how many Ellison stories have you read? Doesn't have to be exact. "Five or six," or "A couple dozen," are fine answers. If you haven't read him, just put "None."
The questions is not meant as a comment on anyone's opinion of Ellison, the man, so be honest. And as it is purely for my personal curiosity/informational purposes, there is no need to editorialize (i. e., "I think he's an asshole and therefore won't read his fiction"). Simply write a number and let it go. Or if it is only one or two stories or articles, list the titles or your remembrance of the plot/what the article concerned.
I'll start. I have probably read about 300 hundred Ellison stories, around 15 Ellison teleplays, and maybe 100 articles/op eds/what-have-you.
Sir Rhosis
The questions is not meant as a comment on anyone's opinion of Ellison, the man, so be honest. And as it is purely for my personal curiosity/informational purposes, there is no need to editorialize (i. e., "I think he's an asshole and therefore won't read his fiction"). Simply write a number and let it go. Or if it is only one or two stories or articles, list the titles or your remembrance of the plot/what the article concerned.
I'll start. I have probably read about 300 hundred Ellison stories, around 15 Ellison teleplays, and maybe 100 articles/op eds/what-have-you.
Sir Rhosis
None.
I saw HE exactly once. At a reading he was doing at my first con back in the 70s. He was such an arrogant self-centered little prick that I wanted nothing to do with him or his writing. As a result, I have never so much as cracked the cover of one of his books. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing so.
Speaking of which, is there anybody here who hasn't heard the "little prick story" about HE?
I saw HE exactly once. At a reading he was doing at my first con back in the 70s. He was such an arrogant self-centered little prick that I wanted nothing to do with him or his writing. As a result, I have never so much as cracked the cover of one of his books. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing so.
Speaking of which, is there anybody here who hasn't heard the "little prick story" about HE?
I did read "A Boy and His Dog" and the graphic novel adaptation of "'Repent Harlequin', said the Tick, Tock Man" I thought they were both superbly written, although I've never been much of a fan of apocolyptic sci-fi.
The overwhelming evidence that he's an arrogant little twerp really doesn't affect my opinion about the quality of his writing one or another.
The overwhelming evidence that he's an arrogant little twerp really doesn't affect my opinion about the quality of his writing one or another.
Scottydog,
I understand your disagreement. Will you allow that while a person can be both brilliant and civilized, that it's a rare thing indeed? In other words, "It is not logical, but it is often true."
Obviously, HE has more issues than TIME magazine. HE may even suffer from an antisocial personality disorder, judging from the stories about him!
(One last thing: Your avatar is both scary and funny. I don't know whether to laugh or shiver!)
Red Ranger
I think it would be interesting to see if a greater proportion of brilliant people are antisocial compared to the general population. So you could be right. In most instances, I think people choose to be assholes. I don't think there is an asshole gene out there over which people have no control.
(Regarding my avatar -- I have dishonored Worf with such an image and I should change his hair before he hunts me down with his batleth!)
(Regarding my avatar -- I have dishonored Worf with such an image and I should change his hair before he hunts me down with his batleth!)
You'd have gotten a painful and memorable surprise if you'd tried.
Sorry, wasn't my experience.
Most of the folks Harlan slams deserve it, and most of the folks who intensely dislike him know a good deal less than they think they do.
UWC Defiance said:
You'd have gotten a painful and memorable surprise if you'd tried.
Sorry, wasn't my experience.
Most of the folks Harlan slams deserve it, and most of the folks who intensely dislike him know a good deal less than they think they do.
Really, when you get down to it, interpersonal relationships are one of those areas where mileages will vary. I have gotten along well with some people who carry the personna of being "difficult" while I haven't hit it off with others who are supposedly easy going.
In my experience, it is a fact that enormously gifted people (H.E. is one of them IMMHO) can be (dont' have to be) extremely high maintanence in their relationships. For myself, if I ever meet him, I'll speak respectfully of my admiration for his abilities and let the chips fall where they might.
