Harlan Ellison

[TiberiusK]

http://www.startrekdom.com/trekumentariestos2.html

If you click the link above and scroll down to parts 3,4, and 5 of Tom Snyder's Tomorrow (1976), there is a lenghty interview with Ellison, Koenig, Doohan, and De Kelley. Ellison rants about how mediocre Star Trek is, while the original cast defends the show.

Was this typical for Ellison? Was he always such an ass, or did he have valid and legit criticisms? Was he a misunderstood sci-fi genius or a pretentious and pompous demagogue? What is you opinion of Harlan Ellison?

 

[Gecko of Gorn]

Ellison was a "little fuck". And a ho-hum writer.

He owes alot to Trek and GR.


IMNSHO.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Gecko of Gorn said:

He owes alot to Trek and GR.

You've GOT to be kidding.

The man wrote scores of stories and novels, has won a slew of awards, and is one of the leading names in literary sci fi, and bcause Trekies only know him from one little butchered screenplay you think his work for Trek amounts to more than a flea's fart in a hurricane in the body of his work?

 

[skylark]

Ellison is quite a good writer, with an extremely high opinion of himself.

Writing novels is a solitary art form over which the writer exercises total control. If you want to work in television, you must accept that you are working FOR someone (usually several someones and at least one big corporation), and you are also working WITH a lot of other people.

Ellison is used to the first, but has never been able to come to terms with the second. And that's why he so often comes off as a spoiled child when Star Trek is concerned.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

TiberiusK said:What is you opinion of Harlan Ellison?

Is this in relation to Star Trek or in general? In general I thought his story "I have no mouth and I must scream" was quite good, a nice little short story with a decent twist in the end.

With relation to Star Trek, I'm not sure what his justification was for ranting so much about his screen play being changed so much before shooting. Its Star Trek, much as we love it its just not as hard hitting as many SF stories you can read in print, certainly nowhere near as much as Ellison's stuff. Did he really think his idea of a drug dealing crew member would sit well with the show or network?

 

[Gecko of Gorn]

A beaker full of death said:

Gecko of Gorn said:

He owes alot to Trek and GR.

You've GOT to be kidding... EDIT

Not at all, old Mate.

I don't believe ol' Harlan would have had half the "exposure" he should have earned if not for Trek and in particular COTEOF. His self promotion over the years more than explains itself.

The same is probably apt for 99% of the "writers" of TOS and it's "children".

 

[Mallory]

I think Ellison was a good writer with a highly inflated sense of self worth. But from everything I've read he was just not a good fit in the television world.

 

[TiberiusK]

Is Ellison's original script available online?

From reading Justman and Solow, I get the impression that most of the changes were due to budget reasons. For example, the spock's ear tractor accident joke was originally a large xenophobic crowd. They couldn't afford that, so they changed it to one policeman. Seems like a logical thing to do.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

^^^His script is not online, but I have a fairly detailed synopsis of it at the first link in my sig. Scroll down until you find it.

Agree with those who say he is a fantastic writer who does not adapt well to the requirements of writing for TV. His work is legendary in the SF literary world, but as others have pointed out, very few hard core Trek fans know him for anything other than COTEOF.

Which is a shame, really.

Sir Rhosis

 

[Tulin]

Gecko of Gorn said:
Ellison was a "little fuck". And a ho-hum writer.

He owes alot to Trek and GR.


IMNSHO.

Oh fucking Christ on a crutch.


You MUST be under 21 and have NO knowledge of classic SF outside of Star Trek and the Power Rangers.

 

[Kail]

TiberiusK said:
Is Ellison's original script available online?

From reading Justman and Solow, I get the impression that most of the changes were due to budget reasons. For example, the spock's ear tractor accident joke was originally a large xenophobic crowd. They couldn't afford that, so they changed it to one policeman. Seems like a logical thing to do.

The original screenplay is in Ellisons book, I believe it's also called City on the Edge of Forever. The book is a great read, not only for the screenplay, but for Ellisons rants. OMG, how he hated Roddenberry! He is a VERY colorful fellow. He says in the book "Roddenberry couldn't write worth sour owl poop."

He has a HUGE ego, but he is also VERY funny.

 

[payndz201]

For ages, I thought "Wow, Harlan Ellison always comes across as a really arrogant, rude, stuck-up asshole with a ridiculously high opinion of himself who won a plagiarism lawsuit against James Cameron despite his Outer Limits stories having only the most superficial similarities to The Terminator, but at least he wrote that awesome short story 'Harrison Bergeron', so I'll cut him some slack."

Then I found out that my memory was at fault and it was actually Kurt Vonnegut who wrote 'Harrison Bergeron', so I guess I can drop the last 17 words of my original opinion.

 

[chardman]

Sir Rhosis said

Agree with those who say he is a fantastic writer who does not adapt well to the requirements of writing for TV.

Not buying that. Harlan has written lots of TV stuff (both pre and post TOS), and few shows have had the kind of conflicts with him that plagued his relationship with Trek.

The Squire of Gothos said

Did he really think his idea of a drug dealing crew member would sit well with the show or network?

The "drugs", as depicted in Ellison's script, weren't all that different from the mind-altering game that Wesley brought aboard the ship in TNG. That is to say, it was an object, rather than something injected or consumed, that appeared harmless, and whose negative drug-like effects weren't known by any of the characters, 'til it was too late to do anything to stop it. Moreover, there was no hint in the script of the dealer-junkie relationship that Roddenberry regularly implied was there.

 

[Kryton]

I have Ellison's COTEOF book. While his original story strayed MASSIVELY from the ST Reality that Coon and Roddenberry had already established, he was FORTUNATE (IMO) that they were able to successfully shoehorn his story into the Trek Mythos (such as it is).

 

[MikeH92467]

Harlan Ellison is an outstanding writer, but he has a personality that pisses off everyone within hearing distance of his mouth.

I agree with the earlier poster, writing novels is solitary work (although I suspect editors play a larger role than generally acknowledged) while TV is a collaborative effort.

Every script gets changed, sometimes because of budget constraints, time constraints or other reasons (maybe an actor gets sick and someone has to change a line to suit another character) that may have nothing to do with the quality of the original script.

To me it's kind of interesting that Ellison bitched about that like he had never run into it before, but if I'm not mistaken he had written for other TV shows before Star Trek. (Anyone else remember Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea?) It seems to me he should have known full well the hazards of writing for TV. If that's the case, I think we can assume that the only reason he wrote for TV at all was for the money. It's also safe to assume that he's bitching about it because he's an attention whore.

Having said that, I wouldn't that he made some valuable contributions to Babylon 5. His writing ability and sci-fi background would seem perfectly suited for a consultant's role.

As I mentioned before it says something about TV that everyone involved with the writing, re-writing and editing of perhaps the most acclaimed episode of Star Trek ended up hating each other.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I read an account of a clash of egos in a pool hall between Ellison and no less than Frank Sinatra--Harlan's lucky he didn't end up at the bottom of a river somewhere....

 

[Sir Rhosis]

chardman said:
Moreover, there was no hint in the script of the dealer-junkie relationship that Roddenberry regularly implied was there.

Actually, the ralationship between Beckwith and LeBeque is very much a dealer/junkie relationship. Beckwith has him hooked and is holding out a jewel but not allowing him to have it until LeBeque promises to get him permission to beam down to the planet. Beckwith even has a line as he taunts him with the jewel, something like "You're my man, aren't you, LeBeque?"

And the Jewels of Sound were consumed orally.

I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing or having different opinions, but we should all doublecheck our sources before stating something as a fact.

Sir Rhosis

 

[TiberiusK]

payndz201 said:
For ages, I thought "Wow, Harlan Ellison always comes across as a really arrogant, rude, stuck-up asshole with a ridiculously high opinion of himself who won a plagiarism lawsuit against James Cameron despite his Outer Limits stories having only the most superficial similarities to The Terminator, but at least he wrote that awesome short story 'Harrison Bergeron', so I'll cut him some slack."

Then I found out that my memory was at fault and it was actually Kurt Vonnegut who wrote 'Harrison Bergeron', so I guess I can drop the last 17 words of my original opinion.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Tulin said:

Gecko of Gorn said:
Ellison was a "little fuck". And a ho-hum writer.

He owes alot to Trek and GR.


IMNSHO.

Oh fucking Christ on a crutch.


You MUST be under 21 and have NO knowledge of classic SF outside of Star Trek and the Power Rangers.

I'm not the poster you're replying to, but for the record I AM over 21, and I DO have some knowledge of "classic SF" outside of Trek and Power Rangers.

I find nearly ALL of the "classic" SF writers (Aszimov, Clark, et al [Ellison INCLUDED]) and their works to be dry, stuffy, and suffering from a SEVERELY over-inflated sense of their own importance. Give me "contemporary" SF (McCaffrey, Gerrald, Duane, to name a few) any day.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

^^^Not gonna get into the pissing contest, just wanted to note that, to me, McCaffrey, Gerrold and Duane are also "classic SF" writers. Especially McCaffrey, who got her start sometime around the early-1950s, and Gerrold whose first prose was published in 1969.

Sir Rhosis