It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Harlan Ellison is Suing Paramount and Pocket Books
- Thread starter nx1701g
- Start date
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Rÿcher
Fleet Captain
H.E.'s always been a douchebag.
an interview from a while ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omxaG1RKsC0
christ, he berated the poor woman for not knowing a single concentration camp's name.
I'm appalled by his rant. I don't have the word to express the disgust I feel towards his reaction to the student who didn't know the concentration camp's name.
In another interview, he went on to say that "if you don't remember the past, we're doomed to repeat it". Okay, if we don't remember the names, dates and other superficial minutiae, we'll be burning whole groups of people alive?
an interview from a while ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omxaG1RKsC0
christ, he berated the poor woman for not knowing a single concentration camp's name.
I'm appalled by his rant. I don't have the word to express the disgust I feel towards his reaction to the student who didn't know the concentration camp's name.
In another interview, he went on to say that "if you don't remember the past, we're doomed to repeat it". Okay, if we don't remember the names, dates and other superficial minutiae, we'll be burning whole groups of people alive?
I'd like to see your judging credentials.
Every time anyone criticizes any aspect of Trek or in any way "threatens" the Franchise, some folks automatically bad-mouth the critics. Ellison may not have "published anything memorable in decades" but next to him and the two or three other sf luminaries who wrote for TOS, Gene Roddenberry was a rank amateur.
T.R
Lieutenant
Since when did you need judging credentials to post an opinion on a web site?
On the issue of Rodenberry we agree. But on Ellison I stand by what I said. He has done nothing lately except sue people. The script he wrote was over 40 years ago and is the property of the studio. Case closed.
On the issue of Rodenberry we agree. But on Ellison I stand by what I said. He has done nothing lately except sue people. The script he wrote was over 40 years ago and is the property of the studio. Case closed.
The Guardian of Forever is also in one of my Star Trek stories. Guess I'd better place a call to Jacoby & Meyers...
Well, no, case not closed, because we don't know that the script he wrote 40 years ago belongs to the corporation. We haven't seen his contract; it's entirely possible that he had a different contract than was standard at the time and that thus he retains ownership of the script and of the characters in it. It's also entirely possible that he does not.
Only two entities have seen his contract and would know for sure: Harlan Ellison and CBS. Ellison thinks he owns them; CBS thinks he does not. Case won't be closed until the court issues its ruling.
ellison hasnt written as much as he did in the past due to health issues.
but when he did through the 90's he regulary was nominated and often won a variety of literary awards.
personally i feel very hot and cold about ellison the person.
on the one hand he has done a lot to help certain authors but then refuses to release the stories in last dangerous visions to help not only the authors still alive as well in many cases now the familes they left behind after they died.
as for his contract with city i dont know about it but some of them the authors did retain certain rights to the characters they created for their story.
for instance if tpau had been uses a a regular character for enterprise his estate would have been paid .
hmm in researching this i just found this more detailed article
that indeed harlan may have a case..
espcially considering in the past the studio has paid him...
courthouse news
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Never even heard of this guy.
Or that Dockhow guy he was talking about.
Or that Dockhow guy he was talking about.
Hmm... if this is true then I can see where Ellison is coming from, but I think that regardless of how slighted he may feel or where he stands legally, Star Trek has become a worldwide phenomenon that has grown beyond the wildest expectations of the people involved in making it.
In his Director's Commentary for TWOK, Nicholas Meyer opines that once you put out a film for public consumption you lose all proprietary posession and responsibility over it. I think the same goes for a TV show such as Trek and its writers. The show has long since passed into the public consciousness and I think that while Ellison may legally still own his creations, I don't think he creatively owns them anymore.
It's been 40 years. After a certain amount of time, copyright disappears - you don't need permission to stage a Shakespeare play for example. I know that the passage of 40 years is a lot different from 500 years, especially when the author is still alive, but I think it's a sufficient enough length of time to justify the usage of a story element without having to secure the author's permission.
In his Director's Commentary for TWOK, Nicholas Meyer opines that once you put out a film for public consumption you lose all proprietary posession and responsibility over it. I think the same goes for a TV show such as Trek and its writers. The show has long since passed into the public consciousness and I think that while Ellison may legally still own his creations, I don't think he creatively owns them anymore.
It's been 40 years. After a certain amount of time, copyright disappears - you don't need permission to stage a Shakespeare play for example. I know that the passage of 40 years is a lot different from 500 years, especially when the author is still alive, but I think it's a sufficient enough length of time to justify the usage of a story element without having to secure the author's permission.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
Date of death plus 75 years.
Date of death plus 90 for us in Euro-wotsit
The law disagrees with you. And since we're talking about the law, that's the only thing that's relevant.
You should rewrite your statement above to say, "... I think 40 years ought to be sufficient time to justify the usage of a story element without having to secure the author's permission," because as your statement stands now, it's factually inaccurate.
With Ellison, the question, of course, boils down to who owns the actual episode, shooting script, and characters for and in "The City on the Edge of Forever." And it sounds to me like no one's actually quite sure.
Exactly. As some posters mentioned very early on in this thread, it's very likely that Ellison had a slightly different deal for his work in Star Trek.
Generally, non-staffers sell all rights to everything in their scripts, including characters and realized concepts.
But since no one here is privy to the actual contract Ellison had (or didn't have), none of us actually knows the status. From what I've read, it sounds shaky at best for Ellison, but again, I don't know the nature of the original contract. And I can't believe Ellison or his "fanbase" didn't note any of the Guardian use for forty years.
That falls into lack of enforcing one's copyright and he could just lose his case for that reason alone. (This is why CBS/Paramount so vigorously defends its own copyrights and trademarks of Star Trek. If you don't enforce them, you can lose them)
--Ted
number6
Vice Admiral
Ellison may be a raving belligerent asshole, but he's usually right about everything he rants about. The link to his rant about writers getting paid for their work and for their public appearances and the link to college kids being stupid and arrogant is 100% on point. The difference is that he has the balls to speak his mind. I respect that.
ah you might wish to read the report from courthouse news
i posted above.
according to it harlan as had ongoing disputes about the use of his creation in the trek novels and in the past they had an agreement worked out.
