Harlan Elison's City on the Edge of Forever screenplay

[idreamedmusic]

I read Ellison's original script and I have to say I understand Roddenberry et all. I mean, it was a beautiful script (though I feel the one weakness was that it exposed the fact that Keeler had to die too soon in the narrative).
That said, I get how it was un-filmable (that's a word) and why it had to be changed. That's a risk, I feel, you take when you hand your work over.

 

[Christopher]

^^Heck, I'd question even calling it a risk. It's a natural and expected part of a collaborative undertaking, especially if you're a freelancer working on someone else's project. My question has always been, if Ellison was so unwilling to be rewritten, why did he ever participate in a heavily collaborative medium like television?

 

[idreamedmusic]

^ Yeah, that's what I mean. He is a pro after all, he knows how the industry works. Rewrites are to be expected, as is your work being watered down, especially when it comes to TV or the movie industry.

Not to derail the thread, but John Gregory Dunne's novel "Monster: Living Off the Big Screen" is a very nice account of him and his wife struggling through years of rewrites for the script of "Up Close & Personal". It's a nice and unusual insight into Hollywood.

All that to say that I find Ellison's bitching about how his script was treated rather... strange. Understandable from an artistic standpoint, no question, but odd in the real world.

 

[Dayton3]

Harlan Ellison always struck me as one of those writers who absolutely hated to be rewritten.

He was a writer who believed that his finished product was the absolute best thing that could be put on the page. He never seemed to accept that rewriting, editing, and revision are part of the process.

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

On B-5 they even created a new producers position for him which basically gave him the opportunity to bitch and moan to his hearts content.

Although is wasn't all Ellison's fault.

Roddenberry was known for lying to writers as to the reasons their work was rewritten or rejected in order to avoid confrontations and arguments.

 

[DaveR]

In DS9, Jadzia Dax was about to ditch her Starfleet career for the guy on the planet flickering in and out of our plane of existence (yes, I could look the name of the planet up, but it's not even 9 a.m. here yet so cut me some slack! )

That was "Meridian," and it doesn't even have the excuse of a condensed TV episode time frame. Their entire love affair only lasted for a few days, before the planet was scheduled to disappear again!

Dave

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think "City On The Edge Of Forever" is indeed the best hour of "Star Trek" ever. They've gone on for forty years more and never topped it - so it's pretty unlikely that they ever will.

 

[sgsmitty]

Dont get me wrong, I liked the episode but not my favorite, as for TOS fav that might be "Balance of Terror" for the drama between the two captains, or even "The Corbomite Maneuver" for a sense of wonder. I feel that TNG had some really good ones as well; "The Inner Light" comes to mind.
Based on some of the comments I will read through his rant with a more light hearted view.

 

[donners22]

His rant on the making of his TV series, which is included in The Essential Ellison, among others, is well worth reading, and highlights his distaste of people who don't follow his vision.

Considering this is a person who posted scores of bricks to a person who annoyed him, it would take some bravery to rewrite him...

 

[Amy Sisson]

I'm not sure about that interpretation. Riker, as we all know, is quite active and interested in diversity of experience. Such flirtateousness is par for the course for him. But he's also an ethical person, and by encouraging what's-her-name to express herself openly as a female, he had placed her at risk of being brainwashed by a repressive culture that considers gender a perversion. He risked his Starfleet career not primarily for love but because he felt he had a responsibility towards what's-her-name for imperilling her personhood.

Yeah, it's been a long time since I've seen that one. I thought I remembered a big conversation with Deanna about him doing what he was doing for love, in which she essentially gave him her blessing, but I could be completely wrong about that.

I also had the impression that he wasn't "risking" his career, as in "oh, this could get me thrown out of Starfleet", but rather that he was truly giving up his career, perhaps by actually resigning from Starfleet, or at least doing something that absolutely would get him thrown out. Sorry, that seems like a nitpicky distinction, but I really didn't think of him "risking" so much as really giving his career up -- and the only reason it didn't happen was that they'd already gotten to the person, who therefore was no longer interested in Riker. And I thought that Riker was emotionally devastated -- well, until the next episode, anyway!

Funny how we all remember eps differently! I could watch it again and see.... but I really hated it, so it probably won't be a priority!

 

[OmahaStar]

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

On B-5 they even created a new producers position for him which basically gave him the opportunity to bitch and moan to his hearts content.

That's interesting, since Ellison never wrote an episode of Babylon 5. He contributed an idea or two, but never actually wrote one of the scripts.

So basically, you don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Yes, some of us are still waiting for Ellison's Babylon 5 sequel to his classic "Demon with a Glass Hand."

I might even possibly consider borrowing a future B5: Lost Tales DVD from friends if it contained such a thing.

 

[Dayton3]

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

On B-5 they even created a new producers position for him which basically gave him the opportunity to bitch and moan to his hearts content.

That's interesting, since Ellison never wrote an episode of Babylon 5. He contributed an idea or two, but never actually wrote one of the scripts.

So basically, you don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

I never claimed Ellison wrote a B-5 episode.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

IIRC, they gave him the title of "Creative Consultant" or something like that.

 

[OmahaStar]

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

On B-5 they even created a new producers position for him which basically gave him the opportunity to bitch and moan to his hearts content.

That's interesting, since Ellison never wrote an episode of Babylon 5. He contributed an idea or two, but never actually wrote one of the scripts.

So basically, you don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

I never claimed Ellison wrote a B-5 episode.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

IIRC, they gave him the title of "Creative Consultant" or something like that.

You said:

He was a writer who believed that his finished product was the absolute best thing that could be put on the page. He never seemed to accept that rewriting, editing, and revision are part of the process.

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

You said he wrote Babylon 5. Otherwise, why would you have "heard he was the same on Babylon 5"? And why could he not accept rewriting, editing, etc., on Babylon 5, if he hadn't written for it?

Look, you said something stupid and you're being called on it. "Jumping" indeed.

 

[ancient]

^^Heck, I'd question even calling it a risk. It's a natural and expected part of a collaborative undertaking, especially if you're a freelancer working on someone else's project. My question has always been, if Ellison was so unwilling to be rewritten, why did he ever participate in a heavily collaborative medium like television?

It seems to me that he's someone who doesn't 'get' teamwork at all. According to Justman et al, he also took forever plus a day to finish his draft. A draft that was totally unusable for TV, and really wasn't a Trek script at all! So yeah, I'd say he was a huge pain in the ass to work with.

The GR rewrite was a great episode though.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

What Gene Roddenberry rewrite?

I think Roddenberry was about the only person who didn't contribute a draft of "City."

If I'm remembering Ellison's book correctly, the aired version was largely Dorothy Fontana's work.

 

[Christopher]

What Gene Roddenberry rewrite?

I think Roddenberry was about the only person who didn't contribute a draft of "City."

If I'm remembering Ellison's book correctly, the aired version was largely Dorothy Fontana's work.

According to Inside Star Trek, Ellison did two drafts, then Steven Carabatsos did one, then Ellison offered to do another revision "in self-defense," and took four months to do it, after which it was still far too costly to shoot (although it did incorporate the Bob Justman suggestion of inserting McCoy in place of the guest characters from the original drafts). Then Gene Coon did a rewrite over Christmas and New Year's, but it still needed some work, and Fontana got the assignment.

However, Justman adds on p. 284:

After several all-night sessions, Gene churned out his own revised final draft teleplay. His version is the one we began filming on the morning of February 3. And even as filming continued, revised pages kept showing up on stage. All in all, in addition to Harlan, four other writers dabbled with his script: Steve Carabatsos, Dorothy Fontana, and the two Genes -- Coon and Roddenberry.

And Justman fails to acknowledge his own contribution, although he only made suggestions in memos rather than tackling the script directly. Still, according to him, Roddenberry did write the final draft, with Fontana's version being the second-last. So a lot of it was probably Fontana's, but the final hand was Roddenberry's (which was his job, after all, as what we'd now call the showrunner).

And I'd trust Bob Justman's word on the topic far more than I'd trust the word of someone as ferociously partisan on the issue as Ellison.

 

[Dayton3]

That's interesting, since Ellison never wrote an episode of Babylon 5. He contributed an idea or two, but never actually wrote one of the scripts.

So basically, you don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

I never claimed Ellison wrote a B-5 episode.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

IIRC, they gave him the title of "Creative Consultant" or something like that.

You said:

He was a writer who believed that his finished product was the absolute best thing that could be put on the page. He never seemed to accept that rewriting, editing, and revision are part of the process.

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

You said he wrote Babylon 5. Otherwise, why would you have "heard he was the same on Babylon 5"? And why could he not accept rewriting, editing, etc., on Babylon 5, if he hadn't written for it?

Look, you said something stupid and you're being called on it. "Jumping" indeed.

I never said Ellison wrote anything for Babylon 5.

 

[ancient]

I didn't recall all the convoluted details, but GR did seem to be the final writer.
"Inside Star Trek" has a complete break-down of script dates, so I take it as being fairly reliable:
(pg 286, 287)

March 16, 1966 ... Story assigned based on H.E.'s pitch.

March 21, 1966 ... First story outline (HE)

May 1, 1966 ... 2nd version (HE)

May 13, 1966 ... Final outline version by HE, and he is given the go-ahead to write a script.

June 7, 1966 ... First draft teleplay dated "June 3, 1966" is recieved from HE.

August 15, 1966 ... Revised final draft teleplay dated "August 12, 1966" is recieved from HE.

Steve Carabatso's rewrite (deemed to still be unfilmable) angers HE, and he offers to rewrite it again sans pay.

Dec 19, 1966 ... Second final draft recieved from HE, dated "Dec 1, 1966".

January 9, 1967 ... Date on the Gene Coon rewrite.

January 23, 1967 ... Date on the DC Fontana rewrite.

Febuary 1, 1967 ... Date on the GR final revision (shooting script).

Febuary 3, 1967 ... Shooting begins.

Febuary 14, 1967 ... Shooting ends.

March 27, 1967 ... Finished Episode delivered to NBC

April 6, 1967 ... Telecast.

The episode required 11 months to write, 8 days to film, 6 weeks of post, and cost $250,397.
The Episode was budgeted at $190,635 - an abnormally high amount to begin with.

Woo, that story never gets old! But hey, the episode ended up great. The only way it could've been greater is if someone died making it. At the rate they were going it had better have been the greatest episode EVER, or heads were gonna roll.

 

[OmahaStar]

I never claimed Ellison wrote a B-5 episode.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

IIRC, they gave him the title of "Creative Consultant" or something like that.

You said:

He was a writer who believed that his finished product was the absolute best thing that could be put on the page. He never seemed to accept that rewriting, editing, and revision are part of the process.

I heard he was the same on Babylon 5, but one of JMS's talents was stroking Ellisons ego and keeping him happy.

You said he wrote Babylon 5. Otherwise, why would you have "heard he was the same on Babylon 5"? And why could he not accept rewriting, editing, etc., on Babylon 5, if he hadn't written for it?

Look, you said something stupid and you're being called on it. "Jumping" indeed.

I never said Ellison wrote anything for Babylon 5.

Pull your head out of your ass already. You said something stupid and it was pointed out (repeatedly). You're just digging a bigger hole for yourself.

 

[Christopher]

^^Sorry, OmahaStar, but you're out of line. Dayton3 did not actually say that Ellison wrote a script for B5; you're just inferring that from what he did say. You're also mistaken in assuming that just because Ellison never got a script credit, that means he never even attempted to write for the show. He did work as a "creative consultant" on the show from the beginning, and there were definitely plans announced for him to write episodes. It's possible those plans fell through for the same reason Ellison's "City" drafts didn't work -- because he was unable to write an affordable script in a timely fashion.