Hackers skewed climate-change emails: scientists

[Psion]

This is just the latest installment from the corporate world's manufactured doubt playbook. Big tobacco did it, after all. Eventually, it will come out that these emails were faked. After all, it's the corporate interests, not scientists, who have more to lose by going green. -- RR

The scientists involved have confirmed that these e-mails are genuine. Between their content, the released program listings showing fraudulent manipulation, the Wegman report, and concerns by a number of skeptical climate scientists over the years, I'm convinced key players in this charade have been willful frauds.

That says nothing about the science of climate change, however. There may indeed be a human influence on global temperatures. But given the ideological politicking by these frauds and the people who supported them, there is simply no way at present to declare the science "settled" and no justification for draconian limits imposed by international rule.

 

[Marc]

This is just the latest installment from the corporate world's manufactured doubt playbook. Big tobacco did it, after all. Eventually, it will come out that these emails were faked. After all, it's the corporate interests, not scientists, who have more to lose by going green. -- RR

The scientists involved have confirmed that these e-mails are genuine. Between their content, the released program listings showing fraudulent manipulation, the Wegman report, and concerns by a number of skeptical climate scientists over the years, I'm convinced key players in this charade have been willful frauds.

That says nothing about the science of climate change, however. There may indeed be a human influence on global temperatures. But given the ideological politicking by these frauds and the people who supported them, there is simply no way at present to declare the science "settled" and no justification for draconian limits imposed by international rule.

and there are no frauds on the denialist side - gotcha

 

[Psion]

This is just the latest installment from the corporate world's manufactured doubt playbook. Big tobacco did it, after all. Eventually, it will come out that these emails were faked. After all, it's the corporate interests, not scientists, who have more to lose by going green. -- RR

The scientists involved have confirmed that these e-mails are genuine. Between their content, the released program listings showing fraudulent manipulation, the Wegman report, and concerns by a number of skeptical climate scientists over the years, I'm convinced key players in this charade have been willful frauds.

That says nothing about the science of climate change, however. There may indeed be a human influence on global temperatures. But given the ideological politicking by these frauds and the people who supported them, there is simply no way at present to declare the science "settled" and no justification for draconian limits imposed by international rule.

and there are no frauds on the denialist side - gotcha

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Climate change deniers are a part of Faux Noise's platform ...

What Fox news did wrong:

A politician of the nineties said that in a extreme worst case scenario the oceans could have risen twenty feet by now, fox news pointed out that the oceans have risen by millimeters.

Fox news pointed out that whether it's a natural climate change or a human caused climate change is a matter that scientists have not completely agreed on.

Fox news pointed out that the current decade hasn't seen the sharp temperature increase of the previous decade.
Fox news pointed out that north polar sea ice pack didn't recede as much in summer 2009 as it did in summer 2008.
Fox news pointed out that the antarctic snow/ice melt last summer was the lowest in thirty years.
Fox news pointed out that hurricanes are not increasing in frequency, intensity, duration and 2009 had two big and one small hurricane.
Fox news pointed out that if America signed a climate control agreement and China and India did not, that this would hurt America economically.

What Fox news has done wrong is they won't shut up on a matter you don't wish them to talk about. They are no more inaccurate than the other cable news stations, I haven't heard fox state there has been no climate change at all, maybe you watch fox more fanatically than the rest of us?

Also, NASA pointed out that mars has climate change: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html

Whoopde-fracking-do! So Mars has climate change? So what? Nobody lives there as yet. We however, live on Earth, and so we have to keep the climate a certain way or we will perish as a species-that's all there is to it. If you want to deny it like a little kid putting their finger in their ears and going "Nununuah' then go ahead, but we big adults want to, and have to, deal with the real world.

As for your long-winded denial of Faux Noise's effect on understanding climate change and other political issues-I'd say that what you just told me proves my point and earlier comment, and that of the documentary I provided a link to.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The scientists involved have confirmed that these e-mails are genuine. Between their content, the released program listings showing fraudulent manipulation, the Wegman report, and concerns by a number of skeptical climate scientists over the years, I'm convinced key players in this charade have been willful frauds.

That says nothing about the science of climate change, however. There may indeed be a human influence on global temperatures. But given the ideological politicking by these frauds and the people who supported them, there is simply no way at present to declare the science "settled" and no justification for draconian limits imposed by international rule.

The leaked information confirms rumours that have been circulating for a number of years about the autocratic regime at the CRU. It sounds to me like an inside job by a disgruntled researcher.

 

[Gertch]

Ouch! Corrected graphs showing just how skewed the data was these climate criminals put forth.

How hotter it truly was

 

[Psion]

The scientists involved have confirmed that these e-mails are genuine. Between their content, the released program listings showing fraudulent manipulation, the Wegman report, and concerns by a number of skeptical climate scientists over the years, I'm convinced key players in this charade have been willful frauds.

That says nothing about the science of climate change, however. There may indeed be a human influence on global temperatures. But given the ideological politicking by these frauds and the people who supported them, there is simply no way at present to declare the science "settled" and no justification for draconian limits imposed by international rule.

The leaked information confirms rumours that have been circulating for a number of years about the autocratic regime at the CRU. It sounds to me like an inside job by a disgruntled researcher.

I tend to agree, although this 'regime' you mention and others continue to play the release as a 'hack' and themselves as victims. Reading the comments in the code makes me wonder if a CRU programmer is the source of the leak.

 

[paudemge]

I tend to agree, although this 'regime' you mention and others continue to play the release as a 'hack' and themselves as victims. Reading the comments in the code makes me wonder if a CRU programmer is the source of the leak.

I read somewhere that the 'leaked data' was likely prepared by the CRU itself as part of a FOI request and may have inadvertently been left on a public server, where I guess someone from Russia downloaded. Don't know if it is true, but probably as likely as anything else.

 

[thesovereignman]

Pretty good video

Good video on the whole thing:
True News by Stefan Molyneux

 

[Arrqh]

Ouch! Corrected graphs showing just how skewed the data was these climate criminals put forth.

How hotter it truly was

Not only does this have nothing to do with the emails, you're just repeating the same fallacies that uninformed people have banded about for the past decade. Try again?

 

[cultcross]

Perhaps try something not an opinion piece from the Murdoch press?

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Dusty Ayres,

What you're not getting here is that the climate change has been exaggerated by certain unscrupulous scientists to make it seem that the planet's going to suffer runaway heating and we'll all fucking die! Oh Noes!

The hottest year in recent history was 2000. The BBC wrote this after the climate-gate data emerged.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Gertch]

Ouch! Corrected graphs showing just how skewed the data was these climate criminals put forth.

How hotter it truly was

Not only does this have nothing to do with the emails, you're just repeating the same fallacies that uninformed people have banded about for the past decade. Try again?

Actually it does show how valid the emails are. Since your responses continue to ignore the points and merely try to slag them off I'm sure you wont mind if I stop responding to your unhelpful posts.

Here's a disturbing incident that shows the temperament of these 'scientists.'


[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtzMBfDrpI[/yt]


Thinking_Man's comment at http://biggovernment.com/2009/12/11/un-security-stops-journalists-questions-about-climategate/ is dead on.

Scientism requires a Fascist reponse to dissent, no surprises here for me

 

[Arrqh]

Actually it does show how valid the emails are. Since your responses continue to ignore the points and merely try to slag them off I'm sure you wont mind if I stop responding to your unhelpful posts.

Er, you're just repeating the same fallacies that have been repeated ad nauseum. Hockey stick is wrong, record warms in the medieval period, etc... it's been debunked over and over again. There is a plethora of literature showing how these arguments are wrong. I have a hard time believing that you haven't ever seen any of it, but would you like me to gather some for you? If instead you'd like to keep posting biased blog posts, that's up to you. I am perfectly willing to engage in a science based debate with you if you're actually going to do that. But so far? You haven't. Please feel free to get started at any time!

If you want to stop responding to my posts, go for it... you're already good at ignoring science, so why not ignore people who are talking about science?

Here's a disturbing incident that shows the temperament of these 'scientists.'

Why are you putting that word in quotes? What does their temperament have to do with the multitude of data and models from a huge number of independent sources that show that climate change is happening? Why do you care more about mudraking then about science? Why is so much of that video removed from context? What else was said during that questioning session?

For someone who is acting as if they are some sort of "skeptic", you're surprisingly trusting of anything that lines up with your preconceived notions. Why do you think that is?

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Dusty Ayres,

What you're not getting here is that the climate change has been exaggerated by certain unscrupulous scientists to make it seem that the planet's going to suffer runaway heating and we'll all fucking die! Oh Noes!

The hottest year in recent history was 2000. The BBC wrote this after the climate-gate data emerged.


CuttingEdge100

Much like the health care legislation in your country's been misunderstood and misinterpreted by certain right-wing executives in the pay of Big Insurance to keep people believing that health care will be nothing but endless waiting in hospitals, clinics, and waiting rooms and people will die! Oh Noes!

Please, please, please, turn off Faux Noise, and all of those right-wing demogauges that you listen to, and read about climate change from people that know what it is. As for health care, pay a visit to Canada and come visit me in Toronto-I'll be happy to let you know about our health care system, and even show you how it works. The same should also apply for any Trek BBS member from Europe or Scandinavia.

 

[Gertch]

Please, please, please, turn off Faux Noise, and all of those right-wing demogauges that you listen to,

I see you agree this is purely a political issue.

 

[cultcross]

Please, please, please, turn off Faux Noise, and all of those right-wing demogauges that you listen to,

I see you agree this is purely a political issue.

It certainly is for them - scientific arguments to support their position are sorely lacking.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Dusty Ayres,

I don't watch Fox News...