News Green Lantern-Inspired Series in Works at HBO Max, From Greg Berlanti

[DigificWriter]

In terms of continuity, Constantine's connection to the Arrowverse is peripheral, yes. But I think what DigificWriter means is simply that Constantine has been retroactively established as taking place on Earth-1, as opposed to Supergirl (Earth-38), the 1990 Flash (Earth-90), and all the other old shows and films whose cast members are appearing in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-1

It is indeed the intent of the Arrowverse's creators that the John Constantine appearing in Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow is the same version of John Constantine who appeared in the NBC series. That's why he wears the same coat, and why they got the same actress who played Astra Logue in Constantine to dub her faked voice in a Legends episode, and cast her adult version as an African-American like in the show. They're limited in what they can directly reference due to the different networks and creators and all, but it's still meant to be the same John.

What I mean is that, in terms of the Arrowverse as a franchise, NBC's Constantine is as much of an official installment as The Flash '90, Arrow, The Flash '14, Vixen, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, Freedom Fighters: The Ray, and Batwoman.

It is explicitly treated as such by the Arrowverse's producers and writers and its events have as much impact on the overall narrative continuity of the franchise as those other series.

 

[JD]

I wouldn't call it a part of the core Arrowverse, since it can't have the same kind of interconnections or back and forth as the five core shows do since it's over, and when it was running it wasn't able to have the kind of connections and back and forth that the CW shows are able to have.
For me, I'd say there's three levels to the Arrowverse shows, the core, which is Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, and probably Batwoman once it get going more, then the peripheral/kinda Arrowverse, which would be stuff like Black Lightning, Flash90, and Constantine, stuff that is connected to the Arrowverse, but isn't as tied into the other shows as the core ones are, and now the connected shows, which would be the ones that are taking part in Crisis on Infinite Earths, but aren't taking a big role. From what we've seen it looks like there's a decent chance Smallville might be a peripheral/kinda show, since it looks like it's version of Lois and Clark might be playing a bigger role in Crisis than some of the other shows.

 

[DigificWriter]

The Arrowverse's producers and writers consider the NBC Constantine series to be part of the "core" of the franchise, so what you, I, or anyone else thinks is ultimately irrelevant.

 

[dahj]

its events have as much impact on the overall narrative continuity of the franchise as those other series.

It has precisely zero impact on the "narrative continuity of the franchise."

The only thing the NBC show and his Arrowverse appearances have in common is having the Astra story as his background, but that's his story from the comics, it's not unique to these productions.

And while yes, it was the intent of the producers for him to be the same character, that was when he was there for just the one-off appearance on Arrow, and even though they have been avoiding contradicting anything from the show since he joined up on a permanent basis there's absolutely zero guarantees that'll be the case in the future, so pretending it's on the same level as the other proper Arrowverse shows is disingenuous.

Like I said, if it works for you, that's fine, but to say the show had "an impact" on the overall story of the Arrowverse is just patently false, and even if the show never gets contradicted it's very likely not much of anything from it will ever be referenced either, so it's never going to be that integral to the universe.

 

[DigificWriter]

It has precisely zero impact on the "narrative continuity of the franchise."

The only thing the NBC show and his Arrowverse appearances have in common is having the Astra story as his background, but that's his story from the comics, it's not unique to these productions.

And while yes, it was the intent of the producers for him to be the same character, that was when he was there for just the one-off appearance on Arrow, and even though they have been avoiding contradicting anything from the show since he joined up on a permanent basis there's absolutely zero guarantees that'll be the case in the future, so pretending it's on the same level as the other proper Arrowverse shows is disingenuous.

Like I said, if it works for you, that's fine, but to say the show had "an impact" on the overall story of the Arroverse is just patently false, and even if the show never gets contradicted it's very likely not much of anything from it will ever be referenced either, so it's never going to be that integral to the universe.

The Arrowverse's producers' stance contradicts yours, and their stance is the only thing that matters.

NBC's Constantine is considered by the producers and writers to be a "core" Arrowverse series whose events directly impact and are a part of the franchise's narrative continuity; this is indisputable fact.

 

[dahj]

NBC's Constantine is considered by the producers and writers to be a "core" Arrowverse series.

Citation?

 

[JD]

As far as I know all they've said is that it is part of the Arrowverse, I don't think I've ever seen them say it is equal to Flash, Arrow, Supergirl, or Legends. If that was the case we probably would have gotten direct references to specific episodes, or at least seen Agelica Celaya as Zed, Charles Halford as Chas and/or Harrold Parineau as Manny.

It has precisely zero impact on the "narrative continuity of the franchise."

The only thing the NBC show and his Arrowverse appearances have in common is having the Astra story as his background, but that's his story from the comics, it's not unique to these productions.

And while yes, it was the intent of the producers for him to be the same character, that was when he was there for just the one-off appearance on Arrow, and even though they have been avoiding contradicting anything from the show since he joined up on a permanent basis there's absolutely zero guarantees that'll be the case in the future, so pretending it's on the same level as the other proper Arrowverse shows is disingenuous.

Like I said, if it works for you, that's fine, but to say the show had "an impact" on the overall story of the Arrowverse is just patently false, and even if the show never gets contradicted it's very likely not much of anything from it will ever be referenced either, so it's never going to be that integral to the universe.

Exactly.

 

[DigificWriter]

Citation?

Their explicit statement that Matt Ryan was playing the same character from the NBC series, their approach to writing the character, the reuse of the NBC series' version of Astrid, and the fact that they explicitly stated and established that the NBC series took place on the same earth as 98% of the rest of the series that make up the Arrowverse's "core".

 

[crookeddy]

Their explicit statement that Matt Ryan was playing the same character from the NBC series, their approach to writing the character, the reuse of the NBC series' version of Astrid, and the fact that they explicitly stated and established that the NBC series took place on the same earth as 98% of the rest of the series that make up the Arrowverse's "core".

So where is the rising darkness?

 

[JD]

Their explicit statement that Matt Ryan was playing the same character from the NBC series, their approach to writing the character, the reuse of the NBC series' version of Astrid, and the fact that they explicitly stated and established that the NBC series took place on the same earth as 98% of the rest of the series that make up the Arrowverse's "core".

That doesn't make it a core series, look at how much casual crossing over and referencing there is on The Flash, Arrow, Legends and Supergirl. We haven't see anything close to that with Constantine.

 

[DigificWriter]

That doesn't make it a core series, look at how much casual crossing over and referencing there is on The Flash, Arrow, Legends and Supergirl. We haven't see anything close to that with Constantine.

The difference is that Arrow, The Flash '14, Supergirl, and Legends are still in active production, whereas Constantine isn't.

And, yes, the things that I mentioned do cement and establish Constantine as being a "core" Arrowverse series.

 

[dahj]

Their explicit statement that Matt Ryan was playing the same character from the NBC series, their approach to writing the character, the reuse of the NBC series' version of Astrid, and the fact that they explicitly stated and established that the NBC series took place on the same earth as 98% of the rest of the series that make up the Arrowverse's "core".

So that would be a big NO on any citation of anyone calling it a "core series" then...

Again, this is just you inferring "core" status, I've already addressed all this and explained how it works in practice, while you've taken that same information and constructed some grand dogmatic stance which doesn't exist.

 

[Christopher]

I wouldn't call it a part of the core Arrowverse, since it can't have the same kind of interconnections or back and forth as the five core shows do since it's over, and when it was running it wasn't able to have the kind of connections and back and forth that the CW shows are able to have.

I think we're blurring two separate topics together -- one, whether something is part of the core narrative of the fictional franchise known as the Arrowverse, and two, whether it takes place within the in-story universe known as Earth-1. Supergirl is in column one but not column two, while Constantine is in column two but not column one. So they're not equivalent things.

It has precisely zero impact on the "narrative continuity of the franchise."

The only thing the NBC show and his Arrowverse appearances have in common is having the Astra story as his background, but that's his story from the comics, it's not unique to these productions.

Astra in the comics was white and British. Astra in both live-action TV incarnations is African-American. Actual footage of Astra being dragged to Hell from the pilot episode of Constantine was reused as a flashback in Legends of Tomorrow: "Terms of Service." So yes, elements exclusive to the NBC version of Constantine have been referenced in the Arrowverse, directly or indirectly, as recently as late last season.

For that matter, Constantine did have a subtle Arrowverse continuity nod even before it was officially added to the Arrowverse. A science magazine featured in Arrow and The Flash appeared in Constantine's penultimate episode.

That doesn't make it a core series, look at how much casual crossing over and referencing there is on The Flash, Arrow, Legends and Supergirl. We haven't see anything close to that with Constantine.

Again, that's because of the limitations of it being from a different network and creators. Clearly the Arrowverse producers would like to acknowledge it more fully; they brought back Astra's original actress to do Astra's voice season before last, and they did manage to license that bit of pilot flashback footage I mentioned. But more direct references would probably require paying extra royalties and such. Still, the fact that they've stayed as consistent with it as they have proves to my satisfaction that they have no intention of breaking their version of Constantine off into a separate continuity from the NBC show.

 

[JD]

Sure, but even if they want to connect it more, they haven't, and that's all I'm looking at.

I think we're blurring two separate topics together -- one, whether something is part of the core narrative of the fictional franchise known as the Arrowverse, and two, whether it takes place within the in-story universe known as Earth-1. Supergirl is in column one but not column two, while Constantine is in column two but not column one. So they're not equivalent things.

That could be. I'm not saying it doesn't take place on the same world as the other Arrowverse shows, I'm just saying that it doesn't have the same kind of week to week crossovers and connections that we see on the other shows. I'm talking things like John showing up on Earth 2 in the Arrow season premiere because he got one of the portal gizmos from Cisco, we haven't gotten that kind of stuff with Constatine. I'm talking about things like the Waverider picking Constatine up while he's hanging our with Charles Hadford's Chas, or a specific reference to an event from an individual episode, so far all we've gotten are shared actors, and a few references to bits of backstory.

 

[Christopher]

I'm talking about things like the Waverider picking Constatine up while he's hanging our with Charles Hadford's Chas, or a specific reference to an event from an individual episode, so far all we've gotten are shared actors, and a few references to bits of backstory.

As I said, there are probably legal/financial reasons they can't do much of that. But one thing I noted when Constantine joined LoT -- he talked bitterly about how he wasn't a team-joining kind of guy because the people who got close to him tended to end up badly. Granted, that was probably setting up the reveal about his relationship with Desmond, but it also implies that maybe there's a tragic reason we haven't heard anything about Chas or Zed.

Anyway, Jim Corrigan will be showing up in Crisis, though (fortunately) not played by Emmett Scanlan. Maybe, despite the recasting, there will be a mention of Constantine and Corrigan having met before. That's the kind of nod they could easily make without getting too specific.

 

[JD]

I understand there are probably reason we haven't seen the kind of crossovers we get with the core series, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't happen. I'm not really talking about the behind the scene reasons stuff is or isn't happening, I'm purely talking about what we're seeing on screen.
And no matter why, we still aren't getting the kind of thing I'm talking about.
If it weren't for Batwoman's appearance in Elseworlds, I'd be saying the same thing about it, since we haven't really gotten any direct connections in the actual show either. I have a feeling that might change once we get to Crisis on Infinite Earths, where we'll see her working with the other heroes again and the timelines probably line up a bit more.

 

[Christopher]

I understand there are probably reason we haven't seen the kind of crossovers we get with the core series, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't happen. I'm not really talking about the behind the scene reasons stuff is or isn't happening, I'm purely talking about what we're seeing on screen.

That's just stating the obvious. I don't see why it's important to point it out. Heck, the shows rarely reference each other except in crossovers, or the occasional passing mention of Cisco providing a new suit or device. If anything, I'm currently frustrated by the lack of communication between Teams Arrow and Flash as they deal with the same looming Crisis in parallel yet totally disconnected from each other.

And it's not like all parts of the Arrowverse are in equally constant contact. There were a number of Vixen references on Legends while Amaya was there, but essentially none since.

 

[Caretaker]

No, it's not.

You're welcome to consider it as such, as there's not much to explicitly prevent it from being headcanoned in, but there's also not much to connect it either, for the obvious reason of it never being the intent when the show was created.

You do you. I will disagree.

 

[kirk55555]

Since Supergirl left CBS, none of the shows not on The CW have been in Arrowverse. Even Titans, which is produced by Greg Berlanti and in terms of style and tone really isn't that far off from the Arrowverse, is not.

Did I miss an episode of a CW show where Supergirl destroyed a mans face with her finger nails, or one where Felicity set people on fire and enjoyed it? Did Cisco ever start shooting and crippling people while saying "Fuck Barry" ? Because if not, I'd say Titans is about as far from the CW shows tonally as you can realistically get with a TV spinoff from a major franchise.

 

[theenglish]

The difference is that Arrow, The Flash '14, Supergirl, and Legends are still in active production, whereas Constantine isn't.

And, yes, the things that I mentioned do cement and establish Constantine as being a "core" Arrowverse series.

Not that I'm disputing this, but where is your source. Even saying Constantine is the same character, doesn't mean that the events in his series actually happened. Have there been references to anything outside of the pilot that aren't from the character's backstory as established in the comics? And, links to sources would help support your claim.