Great, Overlooked TNG Episodes

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by KevinGrem, May 11, 2016.

  1. Pikirk_Janesisko

    Pikirk_Janesisko Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Symbiosis is very good indeed! One of my favorites from season 1. I like how Picard deals with the Brakkians and Ornarians situation without breaching the Prime Directive. Although I could be without the Tasha Yar's PSA.
     
  2. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    I still say Tasha's speech, however heavy handed it might seem to some, was the only time they really exploited her background of escaping from a failed Federation colony. Of course she'd be the one among the characters who has seen the most of drug abuse, and of course Wesley (a sheltered boy raised among Star fleet officers) would-be the most naive of it.
    It's also the only time they touch upon the planned brother-sizter bond between Wesley and Yar.

    Really, I have bigger problems with how the conflict in Symbiosis was resolved. Imho Picard made the worst possible decision that will lead to catastrophal fighting, death and suffering among the addicted population (that still thinks that it is dying AND that there is only a limited amount of "medicine" left)
    Picard might have just sown the seeds for another world like Tasha's, that is if they don't destroy themselves completely in the fighting over the drugs.

    The prime directive was broken the moment they rescued those people.
     
  3. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's also a TWOK reunion of Merritt Butrick (Kirk's son) & Judson Scott (Khan's #1) That's gotta up the Trekkie bonus points some too lol
    Only if you assume the Prime Directive should act as a policy to render no aid whatsoever to anyone, which I'd say it's obvious it doesn't. I'd think the spirit of the directive is that you shouldn't knowingly take actions that will disrupt or involve yourself in cultures. Here, they had no idea this is what they were getting themselves into.

    That said, I don't disagree that the decision they made was problematic, in that it was a deliberate choice to certify that the precarious conditions between the two worlds would falter imminently, by denying them the aid they'd promised. You entered into a good faith arrangement to render a type of aid, to the people rescued from the distressed ship. You should honor that much, despite the conflict that arose, which resolved itself eventually, without your involvement.

    Will doing so prolong the unfortunate state of the Ornarans? Probably, but not forever, & not in any way that is worse than the current state, which is not yours to fix nor expedite for them. These 2 cultures will be circling back to this state yet again, despite your minor act of care. So you give them the stupid coils & tell them both to never bother you again with their awful BS. So they'll all be exploited & on drugs a little longer, & you got roped into being a party to aiding that. That's just one of the less glorious parts of being a beneficent people. Helping people sometimes means you get suckered.

    However, even though Picard caved yet again to Crusher's nagging, denying the coils is not nearly as meddlesome as they were in The Hunted, where they deliberately & knowingly involved themselves in a culture's criminal apprehension, which they then botched to the point that they expedited an uprising, that they then just decided to let happen. Rendering aid by saving the Ornaran's lives is a much less intrusive cultural influence than agreeing to capture some rogue citizen for the Angosians. That was just plain S T U P I D.
     
  4. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

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    God, you all make me want to rewatch "Symbiosis"! Not a feeling I have often.
     
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    What should they have done instead?
     
  6. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    In my opinion Picard should have destroyed that last shipment (as it would have been without the interference of the Enterprise) and told the Ornarans that they weren't deathly ill, just addicted to the "medicine"
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    That sounds reasonable. What about "The Hunted"? Should they have helped to force the prisoners return to the colony?
     
  8. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    I had to think about that for a moment.

    I think the best solution might have been to call a ceasefire for the moment, and yes, contain the ex-soldiers for the moment, hopefully through peaceful means That would have Starfleet to deploy ships and ground troops to the planet as a peace keeping force so that negotiations about the further fate of the ex-soldiers can take place (the ex-soildiersthemselves would of course be involved into the negotiations) and maybe call in some neural specialists from he Federation to see whether the violent conditioning can be reversed with their superior technology and methods, or at least in part.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Fair enough. :bolian:
     
  10. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In which? In Symbiosis, the shipment dispute was already internally resoved & Picard should've honored their original agreement to lend aid to the Ornarans, who's lives they'd saved, by following though & giving them the coils. That would've kept the status quo of drug addiction continuing, yes, but not forever. Undoubtedly they'd be back at this same impasse again in the future, without Enterprise involvement. It's not their job to fix or expedite that change. Their civilization will develop naturally.

    It kind of feels shitty to leave it that way, but sometimes being a good Samaritan that rescues people gets sticky. Sometimes they were in that mess for a reason, & your primary job is to unstick yourself as efficiently as possible.

    As for the Angosians, they never should've agreed to apprehend Roga Danar to begin with. An internal matter, that. Not at all the same as just rescuing some passerby Ornaran ship's crew from imminent destruction

    All that stuff above about declaring ceasefires & detaining people & deploying task vessels to the region. That is bad juju. The specific kind of stuff the prime directive was invented to prevent

    I mean there's a reason the show doesn't start by saying "seek out new life & new civilizations, & then decide what we'll choose to do with them, if we don't like what we find"
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    There is some... schizophrenia going on.
    In "When the Bough Breaks", a planet's natural course of development has doomed its people to extinction. Picard practically shoves Federation aid down their throats. In "Homeward", same thing. Picard forbids any assistsnce.

    In "Symbiosis", Picard steps back and allows the consequences of the drug addiction situation to play itself out, even though untold millions could die in suicide, panic, and anarchy. In "The Hunted", Picard offers the Angosian goverment Federation assistance in deprogramming its veterans (assuming it survives).
     
  12. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    First of all, you are forgetting that the ships that were destroyed in Symbiosis were the last spaceships those civilizations had, and that they don't have the ability to build more, so without telling the Ornarans that they are just addicted you have the same situation again. Billions of people who think they are dying a horrible death committing suicide, killing their children to save them from a more painful death and waging war for the few doses that remain.

    And second of all, the Angosians were a warp-capable species, and the ex-soldiers were part of their population. Keeping the peace between them is not "deciding for them" it is creating a safe environment in which both parties can negotiate without the danger that one side attacks the other. You know like UN peacekeeping forces.Plus the Angosian government made a request for assistance, and Picard basically said "No, have fun with your incoming civil war!"
    And all that non-interference can also lead to "bad juju", just look at the Bajorans!
     
  13. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The request from the Angosian govt. came after Picard had already exacerbated the situation. I agree at that point it was not cool to just walk away, but he had the choice to back away before it ever got to that point, & stepped in it by dealing with Danar for them at all

    Additionally, I don't necessarily think the D crew should be bound to withhold everything from the Ornarans. When they found/rescued them, they were suffering, & were treated by the D's medical staff. I disagree that they should be bound by a nondisclosure of their ministrations/findings. At the very least, a hint that this "disease" isn't deadly should come out of this, as a natural part of random rescue/medical aid efforts
     
  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As Picard said, the moment the Brekkians agreed to give the shipment away, his hands were tied. Before that, he had options like informing the Ornarans about the addiction.

    Now, if the Ornarans asked Picard for help in finding a cure, then he could have done more.
     
  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I still have trouble believing they even landed on the surface in the first place. They know this:

    1) This planet made a living selling extremely advanced weapons systems & it didn't matter to whom
    2) Not too long ago all intelligent lifeforms on the planet disappeared. Every single last one of them.
    3) A colleague of you, one of the very best and bravest (even to the point of arrogance) of Starfleet, recognized for his original and fearless thinking, gets there before you to investigate and all traces of his ship & crew are lost, without even so much as an emergency message
    4) Upon approach, you get hailed by an automated system, trying to sell you weapons

    So what do you do? Well, duh, of course you send out small and lightly armed parties to the surface to find out what happened. What could possibly go wrong? I think I would have hightailed out of there and advised Starfleet to send in a team of highly trained specialists (rather than a bunch of general purpose explorers) and an armada of backup ships to deal with the situation, but I guess that just shows I'm not Starfleet material.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  16. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sarek

    Not because this episode itself is overlooked - but usually it is cited for its famed Picard performance.

    I'm commending it now for the performance of the 'Sarek' character itself - its almost intimate portrayal of people in the early stages of Alzheimers - still desperately trying to keep on to their dignity and the reactions and rationalizations of the people around them who love them or are concerned about them (in the episode specifically: his wife and his aides)- and in some way a study into the denial and confusion they must experience.

    All in all, the entire episode breathes respect for those old of age and what they accomplished in their life - while still acknowledging the possibility of their decay .
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  17. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Agreed. Watching Beverly comfort Picard was also very moving. I liked Pulaski, but not sure she should have handled that job as well.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Just watched "Field of Fire", and while the science is dubious (why would the bullet still be moving after being transported?), the interplay between Ezri and Joran is fun to watch. It's strange that Starfleet didn't develop the TR-116, though.
     
  19. urrutiap

    urrutiap Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    the Sarek episode is still great but sad and depressing because of Sarek's health breaking down especially with him in denial and his best speech:

    "Illogical! Illogical!"

    also Picard going through those emotions he's lucky that he has a pacemaker. If he had a regular heart i dont think Picard would have survived the stress from going from one emotion to the next one
     
  20. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Admiral

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