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Gratuity - is it Gratuitous?

Is gratuity gratuitous?

  • I think gratuity is important - I want to reward good service.

    Votes: 15 41.7%
  • I think gratuity is unimportant - pay people a living wage!

    Votes: 12 33.3%
  • In my country providing a gratuity is not customary.

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • Narwhals and unicorns understand the value of a good tip.

    Votes: 2 5.6%

  • Total voters
    36
Because Americans are taught that if they work hard, and excel, they have a good chance to "make it", to "get to the top". So that server or bartender instinctively knows that if he or she is given a standard wage, that's as far as they will go.
However, if they are responsible for what they make, then if they work as hard as can, and are good at what they do then there is a chance they can make their way to the top. Or something.

America has enshrined the concept of "opportunity" and "hard work will make you rich", and servers and bartenders buy into that concept. It's frustrating.

And yet despite that in most jobs people are paid a defined wage.

But in an industries that depend on keeping wages low to make a profit, either the industry moves to a location where wages can be kept low, brings in workers willing to work for low wages (immigrants for example) or fights tooth and nail to prevent any wage increases.
Retail stores and restaurants accrue extensive labor costs while maintaining a very tight profit margin. It's no accident that they feature heavily in news articles about the 'wage wars'.
 
Because Americans are taught that if they work hard, and excel, they have a good chance to "make it", to "get to the top". So that server or bartender instinctively knows that if he or she is given a standard wage, that's as far as they will go.
However, if they are responsible for what they make, then if they work as hard as can, and are good at what they do then there is a chance they can make their way to the top. Or something.

America has enshrined the concept of "opportunity" and "hard work will make you rich", and servers and bartenders buy into that concept. It's frustrating.

And yet despite that in most jobs people are paid a defined wage.

But in an industries that depend on keeping wages low to make a profit, either the industry moves to a location where wages can be kept low, brings in workers willing to work for low wages (immigrants for example) or fights tooth and nail to prevent any wage increases.
Retail stores and restaurants accrue extensive labor costs while maintaining a very tight profit margin. It's no accident that they feature heavily in news articles about the 'wage wars'.

Then aren't we the customer to blame, we generally want to pay as little for goods and service that we can. Whilst we can bemoan the low wages people in those sectors can earn.

In order to pay more, companies either have to take a hit to the bottom line or increase pricess to cover. And remember in sectors such as restaurants/retail they are at the end of the chain. They have to buy from manufactures, who in turn might have to buy from several comapnies to make said product eeach wanting employees wanting more pay.
 
I agree Macleod that the (primarily) Western obsession with cheap, disposable everything has contributed to a lot of problems.
Look at our homes... now we have a tablet, a smart phone, a computer and a TV. A lot of homes have multiples of each of those items. We have a fridge, an oven, a dishwasher, two laundry machines, a vacuum, tons of cheaply made tools, power tools, Roombas, the list goes on and on. We celebrate how cheaply we can get various items and how easy it is to buy them on credit.

My grand parents had several pieces of furniture that are still in great shape today.

My parents have owned sets of living room furniture in ten years, mostly because they buy cheap stuff and it wears out.

Then they throw it away.

At the restaurant level the concept that you can eat out a restaurant and get a quality meal for under $10 is amazing. Keeping the price that low means the food is super cheap, full of junk, and the labor costs to prepare and serve it is insanely low.

Yet that is what we expect.
 
I walked into Skillets a couple of days ago and was ignored for 7 minutes, until another couple walked in, sat down, and immediately got coffee, then I was noticed. I should pay for that? I think a tip is a good way to remind a server who they are serving. Their boss isn't the one sitting there waiting for food, preferably before it gets cold.

When you consider the amount of money most people have for eating out, after things like mandatory insurance and overpriced gasoline, its a wonder there are as many restaurants as there are.

As for furniture, most of mine is what I can afford, but I do have an antique upright grand piano that has been in my family for 5 generations.

CCC.
 
Eh, I don't like using tips to show "who's boss." I like giving people money for helping me have a pleasant evening. When I'm going out to eat, I try to plan for excellent service, so that the server can receive a nice big tip, and I never mention anything about tips at all. I like to smile at the server and call them by name. I like to greet them warmly, hopefully the same way they greeted me. This isn't a minion, this is a person who wants to make as much money as they can, and by god I'm going to help them if I can.

My requirements for good service aren't that high, anyway. Make a mistake with my order? Not a big deal. Forget to fill my drink once or twice? No problem. It's making the effort, that's what matters. I mean, unless you slam my food on the table, tell me to go fuck myself, and spit in my drink, walking away as you give me the finger, you're likely going to get a tip. :lol:
 
My tipping habits start at 15% and can go up from there. But I've not been in a table service restaurant or anywhere else tipping's common in 3 or 4 years. I think the last time I tipped was to a delivery driver in 2013 when ordering the Enterprise dvd set through Amazon.
 
I walked into Skillets a couple of days ago and was ignored for 7 minutes, until another couple walked in, sat down, and immediately got coffee, then I was noticed. I should pay for that? I think a tip is a good way to remind a server who they are serving. Their boss isn't the one sitting there waiting for food, preferably before it gets cold.

When you consider the amount of money most people have for eating out, after things like mandatory insurance and overpriced gasoline, its a wonder there are as many restaurants as there are.

As for furniture, most of mine is what I can afford, but I do have an antique upright grand piano that has been in my family for 5 generations.

CCC.


But if they were making minimum wgae before tips, you could still tip them or not depending on quality of service. And no you aren't their boss you are a customer.

Come to Europe if you want to see over priced Petrol, compared to many places it's cheap in the US.


http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/
 
I walked into Skillets a couple of days ago and was ignored for 7 minutes, until another couple walked in, sat down, and immediately got coffee, then I was noticed. I should pay for that? I think a tip is a good way to remind a server who they are serving. Their boss isn't the one sitting there waiting for food, preferably before it gets cold.

Servers already understand the process, and the requirements. If they suck at their job - tell their manager, and if it is a corporate restaurant, call their main office.

If you stiff the waiter/waitress and don't tell the manager, you will just allow a crappy employee to generate sympathy for themselves, and all the other employees will think you are a douche. Believe you me, servers talk about people who stiff them.
 
A tip is recognition of a job well done. If a person just expects a tip and does not earn it, that bothers me.
What if it was renamed as a "service charge"?
Aren't they already paid to provide service?

My tipping habits start at 15% and can go up from there. But I've not been in a table service restaurant or anywhere else tipping's common in 3 or 4 years. I think the last time I tipped was to a delivery driver in 2013 when ordering the Enterprise dvd set through Amazon.
Whyever would you tip a delivery driver bringing you something from Amazon? Was it an extremely heavy package? Did he/she have to climb 6 flights of stairs? Was it in the dead of winter with a blizzard going on?

To me that makes about as much sense as tipping the Canada Post parcel delivery people, since most of them are highly insulted that I expect them to actually bring the parcel to my door instead of just allowing them to get away with leaving a card in my mailbox without attempting to contact me by buzzing my suite or knocking on my door (I'm always home during delivery hours).
 
My tipping habits start at 15% and can go up from there. But I've not been in a table service restaurant or anywhere else tipping's common in 3 or 4 years. I think the last time I tipped was to a delivery driver in 2013 when ordering the Enterprise dvd set through Amazon.
Whyever would you tip a delivery driver bringing you something from Amazon? Was it an extremely heavy package? Did he/she have to climb 6 flights of stairs? Was it in the dead of winter with a blizzard going on?

To me that makes about as much sense as tipping the Canada Post parcel delivery people, since most of them are highly insulted that I expect them to actually bring the parcel to my door instead of just allowing them to get away with leaving a card in my mailbox without attempting to contact me by buzzing my suite or knocking on my door (I'm always home during delivery hours).

Because I hadn't been able to tip anyone in 3 or 4 years. I'd also had them FedEx it, so it didn't come through regular mail. He tried to refuse it, because I don't think they're allowed to take tips, but I insisted.

But if you don't know what it's like to have lived a life where you tipped, then suddenly being in a life where you can't afford to go to places where tipping is common (like a greasy spoon diner), I can't explain it to you. It was a chance for me to feel like I had a disposable income again.

So if that's worthy of your condemnation, so be it. It didn't affect you anyway, it made me feel good, so I don't know why you're offended by it.
 
A tip is recognition of a job well done. If a person just expects a tip and does not earn it, that bothers me.
What if it was renamed as a "service charge"?
Aren't they already paid to provide service?

Not really. Not at 2.13 an hour. They're paid to be at the restaurant so they can provide service if a table shows up. They're paid to clean the tables and make sure everything is ready, restock the sugar, salt, pepper, etc., roll silverware so it can be ready to be brought back out, refill the soda machine, etc. In other words, many of the other activities of the restaurant that need to be done goes to their compensation that is less than a third of minimum wage.
 
What if it was renamed as a "service charge"?
Aren't they already paid to provide service?

Not really. Not at 2.13 an hour. They're paid to be at the restaurant so they can provide service if a table shows up. They're paid to clean the tables and make sure everything is ready, restock the sugar, salt, pepper, etc., roll silverware so it can be ready to be brought back out, refill the soda machine, etc. In other words, many of the other activities of the restaurant that need to be done goes to their compensation that is less than a third of minimum wage.

It's worth noting that the minimum wage in Canada is better for servers by comparison with the US, in every province. Wiki article on minimum wage in Canada. The tax structure is different from the US in Canada, as are tipping customs [ed - and cost of living, etc.], so it's somewhat an apples to oranges comparison, but I don't believe that it's so far off that the $2.13/hr in the US for tipped employees doesn't look really low (where it applies).
 
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What if it was renamed as a "service charge"?
Aren't they already paid to provide service?

Not really. Not at 2.13 an hour. They're paid to be at the restaurant so they can provide service if a table shows up. They're paid to clean the tables and make sure everything is ready, restock the sugar, salt, pepper, etc., roll silverware so it can be ready to be brought back out, refill the soda machine, etc. In other words, many of the other activities of the restaurant that need to be done goes to their compensation that is less than a third of minimum wage.

Bingo! It's called "sidework" and depending on the restaurant it can consume 2-4 hours of time, every minute of which the server is not getting any money from tips.

Some busy Saturday nights at my old job, My last customer would leave at 10:30pm but I wouldn't leave until 1:00am or later.
 
My tipping habits start at 15% and can go up from there. But I've not been in a table service restaurant or anywhere else tipping's common in 3 or 4 years. I think the last time I tipped was to a delivery driver in 2013 when ordering the Enterprise dvd set through Amazon.
Whyever would you tip a delivery driver bringing you something from Amazon? Was it an extremely heavy package? Did he/she have to climb 6 flights of stairs? Was it in the dead of winter with a blizzard going on?

To me that makes about as much sense as tipping the Canada Post parcel delivery people, since most of them are highly insulted that I expect them to actually bring the parcel to my door instead of just allowing them to get away with leaving a card in my mailbox without attempting to contact me by buzzing my suite or knocking on my door (I'm always home during delivery hours).
Because I hadn't been able to tip anyone in 3 or 4 years. I'd also had them FedEx it, so it didn't come through regular mail. He tried to refuse it, because I don't think they're allowed to take tips, but I insisted.

But if you don't know what it's like to have lived a life where you tipped, then suddenly being in a life where you can't afford to go to places where tipping is common (like a greasy spoon diner), I can't explain it to you. It was a chance for me to feel like I had a disposable income again.

So if that's worthy of your condemnation, so be it. It didn't affect you anyway, it made me feel good, so I don't know why you're offended by it.
Okay, simmer down. First, I wasn't "offended" and it's an overreaction on your part to assume I was. It's also an overreaction on your part to assume that I don't know what it's like to be poor and wondering where my next meal is coming from, since I have had that experience and know it's not a great way to live.

I just don't get the reason for tipping people for something they're supposed to do anyway. If they go above and beyond, that's different, which is why I asked if the package was exceptionally heavy, if they had to climb a lot of stairs, or if the weather was really bad.

I tip taxi drivers who help me in with my purchases, and delivery drivers, especially when the weather is really awful. I don't imagine they have a pleasant job when it's -35C at night, and somebody wants pizza or Chinese food.
 
I always tip my server when I dine out, at least 18% of the bill. My minimum is usually $5, even if my bill is $20 or less.
 
Servers already understand the process, and the requirements. If they suck at their job - tell their manager, and if it is a corporate restaurant, call their main office.

Actually, probably the better remedy is if they suck at their job, tell the Internet. There are restaurant reviewing sites for that purpose, and their manager or main office isn't likely to do much.

By the same token "servers talk about people who stiff them" might not be much of a deterrent to someone who was sufficiently vengeful (or entitled) to actually stiff them. If their experience was really that bad they might simply not go back to that restaurant again.

Ultimately telling people they will be thought of as a douche if they don't will never increase the consistency of tipping. Some people just don't care about being thought of that way, or are entitled enough not to care if servers think of them that way. Some people don't give a toss that your boss doesn't pay a living wage and view the interaction as what it's theoretically supposed to be, an optional reward for good service. Some people think of themselves as consistent tippers but may just screw up the math, or have a party skip out on the bill, or any number of other things. Direct gratuity is inconsistent by its nature precisely because it can't compensate for variables of personality, interpersonal chemistry and circumstance, which is precisely why a system that relies on it to the near exclusion of anything else (even to the point of treating it as taxable income) is just abusive. And that abuse is ultimately being meted out by the industry, not the customer.
 
Servers already understand the process, and the requirements. If they suck at their job - tell their manager, and if it is a corporate restaurant, call their main office.

Actually, probably the better remedy is if they suck at their job, tell the Internet. There are restaurant reviewing sites for that purpose, and their manager or main office isn't likely to do much.

By the same token "servers talk about people who stiff them" might not be much of a deterrent to someone who was sufficiently vengeful (or entitled) to actually stiff them. If their experience was really that bad they might simply not go back to that restaurant again.

Ultimately telling people they will be thought of as a douche if they don't will never increase the consistency of tipping. Some people just don't care about being thought of that way, or are entitled enough not to care if servers think of them that way. Some people don't give a toss that your boss doesn't pay a living wage and view the interaction as what it's theoretically supposed to be, an optional reward for good service. Some people think of themselves as consistent tippers but may just screw up the math, or have a party skip out on the bill, or any number of other things. Direct gratuity is inconsistent by its nature precisely because it can't compensate for variables of personality, interpersonal chemistry and circumstance, which is precisely why a system that relies on it to the near exclusion of anything else (even to the point of treating it as taxable income) is just abusive. And that abuse is ultimately being meted out by the industry, not the customer.

I think you might have been missing my point.

My point was that the most effective way to negatively impact the server who is not doing their job is to complain about them to the manager, the Internet, and their corporate office if applicable.

'Stiffing the server' does not correct the problem, and may contribute to the continued employment of a server who does not need to continue in the service industry as it will generate sympathy for a person who may not deserve that sympathy.
The ownership of the restaurant is very, very eager to hear customer feedback and would gladly do what is necessary, including refunding the cost of the meal, providing discounts for the next meal, etc. to mitigate the effects of bad service.

So communication with management and beyond about bad service allows for the possibility that unqualified individuals will be removed from their place of employment (which will improve the life of the qualified employees), it allows for the possibility customer to receive some kind of compensation for their negative experience, and it prevents an unqualified employee being able to generate sympathy and perhaps extend their tenure.
 
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