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Spoilers Gotham - Season 2

That's an intriguing notion.
We saw Fish's body in a tank at Strange's facility, so I'm pretty sure he's going to be responsible for her return.
I keep forgetting that The New 52 has retconned Barbara Eileen Gordon into Barbara-Batgirl's biological mother. In the previous continuity, Babs was Jim's niece whom he and Sarah Essen adopted. Still, the two Barbaras have only been treated as biologically related for the past five years (and, well, implicitly back in the early '80s when Barbara Kean was first introduced in an alternate-universe story), so it's not like it's the only possibility. The show's played fast and loose enough with continuity as it is.




I always had the sense that the weird hybrid nature of this show was the result of the network not trusting the premise. "A gritty crime drama about the corrupt Gotham PD? Who's gonna watch that? Everyone's gonna expect Batman and the Joker and supervillains, so you have to put them in the show! Who cares if it makes sense?" Like how the makers of Star Trek: Enterprise wanted to avoid Klingons and transporters and time travel and all that familiar Trek-universe stuff and focus more on the early days of Earth's interstellar program, but were required by a wary network to stick in more familiar elements for fear that the audience wouldn't be interested without them.

At least Smallville spent its first few seasons avoiding most of the Superman mythos and focusing on stuff that fit its own setting. It didn't start to fold in elements from his adult life and career as Superman until later seasons, and at least it phased them in gradually. Although I suppose the difference is that there's already a lot established about Clark Kent's youth in Smallville that could be used in the series -- Ma and Pa Kent, Lana Lang, Pete Ross, and his early friendship with Lex Luthor from the Silver Age Superboy comics, plus post-Crisis ideas like the teenage Clark discovering his powers and origins for the first time. Not all that much has been established about the first few years after Bruce Wayne was orphaned.

Still, the initial premise of Gotham wasn't that bad. It was supposed to be sort of a cross between Batman: Year One and Gotham Central, a GCPD-centric show about Jim Gordon dealing with the corruption in the GCPD and taking on the powerful mobsters of Gotham City, so you had a lot of characters to draw on like Bullock, Essen, Montoya, Allen, Falcone, Maroni, and Commissioner Loeb. And charting the young Penguin's rise to power in the underworld is not an unreasonable path to take in that setting. And having a background thread of a young Bruce Wayne coping with the murder of his parents wasn't an unreasonable inclusion. Bruce was actually the best thing about the first season.

But they just lost focus. They threw in Riddler and Catwoman and Poison Ivy prematurely, they had Penguin rise too fast and got rid of Falcone and Maroni too fast, they dropped Montoya and Allen for no apparent reason, and it just started to go more and more off the rails and cram in more and more Batman characters, rather than really committing to its early-days characters and threads for several seasons like Smallville did. I never thought I'd be holding up Smallville as a good example of a superhero adaptation, but it did handle the pacing and focus of a prequel far better than Gotham, at least in its early seasons.
I thought they were pretty open from the start that they were going to be dealing with all of the different villains. At least that was what I expected from the beginning.
I've been thinking Barbara will make some grand sacrifice that will inspire Gordon to name the baby in her honor.
That thought has crossed my mind a couple times too.
 
I hope Galivan is just crazy and channeling "Azrael" doctrine from the true order's history, and isn't just the show's fake version of Azrael, who has a much bigger history spanning the ages, and plays a very prominent role in the future of the Bat mythos.
This show doesn't care about the Bat mythos. They're doing their own thing and not paying attention to anything that has come before.
 
I thought they were pretty open from the start that they were going to be dealing with all of the different villains. At least that was what I expected from the beginning.

By the time it premiered, sure. But I remember the earliest announcements, and it sounded then like the plan was to focus more on Gordon and the cops and organized crime. What I'm saying is that I suspect the network didn't trust that idea and required the inclusion of more familiar Batman elements as a condition of going forward with the series. Which is the most sensible explanation I can think of for how we ended up with this insane, dysfunctional hybrid mess of a show, rushing through Batman's rogues' gallery at a ridiculous pace. Smallville had the patience to introduce maybe one new Superman ally or villain per season, but Gotham is just cramming them in as fast as it can manage, far earlier than it makes any sense to use them.
 
I think this show is going to end up making the most believable sense of the Joker's origin ever. Being ressurected from DEATH? No wonder he can never remember his origins, constantly re-creates himself, is mentally fractured.... and seems to have some kind of super human qualities, at least in pain tolerance and survival.
 
This show seems to be starting to find its stride. This was another solid episode and Azrael makes for a fun villain. Even Nygma seems to be coming into his own at Arkham, I'm curious where his storyline is going.
 
BD Wong is killing it as Hugo STrange. Is anyone a fan of Strange from way back? Any thoughts?

It's too bad Gotham wouldn't be inclined to do a joke with DOCTOR. STrange

The thing is, this episode felt a little campy...yet serious.

And so.... this is Bruce Wayne's inspiration for Batman???
 
OMFG I love this show!

"I prefer Thorazine!" :lol: Speculations on what Ethel Peabody will someday become after the good Doctor tires of her doubting his ability's?
 
I think this show is going to end up making the most believable sense of the Joker's origin ever. Being ressurected from DEATH? No wonder he can never remember his origins, constantly re-creates himself, is mentally fractured.... and seems to have some kind of super human qualities, at least in pain tolerance and survival.
I was wondering if they were going that direction with Jerome. I completely forgot Strange had him until someone mentioned in an article I was reading. With the way things are going I could definitely see Jerome being resurrected as Joker.

I like the way they did Azrael. It makes sense, but at the same time leaves a slight possibility that one of the comic Azraels could still appear.
I wonder if the quote from Alice in Wonderland was a set up for Jervis Tetch or one the other Wonderland themed villains?
This show is already building a better, more traditional Batman with Bruce, than what we got in BvS. I'm saying this as someone who like BvS.
I loved getting to see everyone's reactions to Galavan being alive.
Barbara really is the Gotham version of Harley at this point. The scene with Butch and Tabitha Galavan freaking out over all the stuff she did was funny.
The stuff with Nygma in Arkham was great, I loved him manipulating all of the other inmates.
It's disappointing they appear killing off Barnes, I liked Michael Chiklis, and I was hoping he'd help bring Gordon back into the GCPD.
 
I'm expecting Barnes to survive. He didn't die in the episode, so him dying later in hospital would be pointless and lack any impact. This will just be the event that convinces him that everything Gordon was telling him is true, and puts him on Gordon's side for the remainder of the season

I have to say, I really love this show. I love that it does its own thing, and I love that that annoys people. After years of continuity-heavy comic books, and pedantic fans demanding that every adaptation should follow the comics exactly, it's refreshing to have a show that just has fun with the universe, rather than being defined by it. I hope Gotham continues for years.

Has it been renewed for a third season already?
 
God, this show is so bizarre and cartoonish. And yet I love it anyway. It was pretty cool to have a proper costumed villain with ?super? powers. And it's so nice to see the story finally moving forward and not spinning circles; Bruce and Gordon are working together and know who killed Bruce's parents, the Riddler is an exposed criminal, etc.
 
They should just go for broke and make Gordon Batman and Bruce can be Robin. :p

The staffing agency that supplies the GCPD with cops and Lex Luthor's security on Smallville may be going out of business soon.
 
Honestly, this episode suggested to me that GORDON would be becoming a costumed vigilante. I mean, they're clearly not setting up an eventual 'normal' Batman story so why not throw it on all on the wall? Make Gordon a vigilante training Bruce :nyah:
 
They should just go for broke and make Gordon Batman and Bruce can be Robin. :p

There would be precedent for that. There was a comics story in the '60s or '70s that revealed that Bruce had actually been the first Robin, adopting the disguise to become the protege of a great detective.

Although since this show's Gordon is not so much a great detective as a multiple murderer, it doesn't quite align...
 
Although since this show's Gordon is not so much a great detective as a multiple murderer, it doesn't quite align...

This episode had Bruce wanting Gordon to take out Strange and he explained that what he did was wrong. Perhaps having more of an effect on future Batman than having a chaste paragon of virtue simply lecture.

I chose to kill a man in cold blood, and it was the wrong choice, crossing that line.
You'll pay for it over and over again, like I have been. Like I still am.
And it will make you more like the evil you're trying to fight.
You need to be better.
Do you understand me?
Just hold out a little bit longer.
We'll work on Barnes, get him to sign off on a warrant and put Strange away for good.
The right way.

Then again, doing the right thing also leads to innocent deaths. All the innocent cops killed by Azrael (just as a start) could've been avoided if Gordon had killed Strange. So instead of "murdering" one bad person multiple good people died instead directly because of his inaction. And let's not even get started with the Joker in the comics. I'm not saying his killing people is necessarily right but there are consequences for those actions.
 
^Gordon actually said those things in the episode? Hmm, maybe I should consider watching the season when it comes to Netflix. Although I'm still not fond of the show's habitual ultraviolence.
 
I definitely thought Gordon was going to end up in some type of mask or costume after he broke out of jail and was hiding. He's definitely the Batman of this show. Lol.
 
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