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Gotham - Season 1

^Okay, so tell me: How does it work, in your mind, to have two characters go through an arc of being established as important allies for the hero and then immediately disappear without a word of explanation? How is that a good story? How does it make the slightest bit of narrative sense?
 
If anything, I can see why they dumped the characters...already having tough, honest detectives in the GCPD would take away from Gordon's specialness.
 
^Okay, so tell me: How does it work, in your mind, to have two characters go through an arc of being established as important allies for the hero and then immediately disappear without a word of explanation? How is that a good story? How does it make the slightest bit of narrative sense?

I take the viewpoint that you only use characters if you absolutely need to, even if they're series regulars, and if a story moves in a particular direction that doesn't absolutely need some of your major characters, you follow where that story leads and then come back to the characters you'd 'neglected' once there's a story reason to.

For me, Allen and Montoya 'disappearing' part-way through Gotham Season 1 is no different than Bran Stark, Osha, Rickon Stark, Hodor, and Meera Reed 'disappearing' from Game of Thrones Season 5. The writers and showrunners of GoT will bring those characters back in once it's appropriate for them to do so narratively, and, in the meantime, the story operates just fine without them, and I firmly believe that Gotham's showrunners will do the same with Allen and Montoya.
 
If anything, I can see why they dumped the characters...already having tough, honest detectives in the GCPD would take away from Gordon's specialness.

Then why set them up in the first place? Or why not at least include a reason for their departure, like, say, a mention that Commissioner Loeb had them reassigned as a countermove against Gordon? Not only did they abandon the plot thread, they didn't even give a reason for abandoning it. They just forgot about it and expected the audience not to notice amidst all the other random stuff going on.

Let's not forget, Allen and Montoya were set up as significant for Bruce as well as Gordon -- the ones Gordon told Bruce he could turn to if anything happened to him. Given the desperate straits Gordon ended up in later in the season, that's something that should have been mentioned again, purely as a matter of continuity. Failing that, there should've been an explanation for why they were no longer in the picture.

I see the change as a casualty of FOX giving them six more episodes. The season started with a plan to do an arc in a certain number of episodes, but once it got expanded, they had to stall, to drag things out. Whatever plan they had to show Gordon gradually accruing allies and strengthening his position got postponed -- and then ended up being totally abandoned, with no real progress made by the end of the season. As I may have mentioned before, LOST had the same problem, its success leading it to spin its wheels and abandon any real progress to its storylines, just using serialization and endless cliffhangers as an excuse to avoid actually advancing the narrative.



I take the viewpoint that you only use characters if you absolutely need to, even if they're series regulars, and if a story moves in a particular direction that doesn't absolutely need some of your major characters, you follow where that story leads and then come back to the characters you'd 'neglected' once there's a story reason to.

But as I said, there were circumstances where they should've at least been mentioned. And really, the abandonment of Montoya and Allen is just a symptom of the larger problem of the abandonment of any arc or progress on the corruption front. The first part of the season had an arc -- Gordon started out a man alone, then he eventually won Bullock over, then he convinced Montoya and Allen he was on their side, then he scored a coup by gaining Essen's support in bringing down Flass. And then in the back half of the season, there was no more progress at all. Sure, they introduced Loeb as Gordon's nemesis and Gordon managed to hold him at bay... but then it just froze there, and the season ended with no resolution of it at all. At the very least, that's an inelegant and awkward plot structure.


For me, Allen and Montoya 'disappearing' part-way through Gotham Season 1 is no different than Bran Stark, Osha, Rickon Stark, Hodor, and Meera Reed 'disappearing' from Game of Thrones Season 5. The writers and showrunners of GoT will bring those characters back in once it's appropriate for them to do so narratively, and, in the meantime, the story operates just fine without them, and I firmly believe that Gotham's showrunners will do the same with Allen and Montoya.

I don't watch that show, so I can't judge the merits of the analogy. But I'd be surprised if we ever saw the return of two characters who disappeared without a word of explanation less than halfway through the season.
 
The GoT characters I mentioned are completely absent from the series' 5th season, but will be back for Season 6, and I firmly believe that such will be the case as well for Allen and Montoya come Gotham Season 2.

We'll see, though.
 
Honestly, I'm hearing contradictory arguments here. If they're so capable at handling a large ensemble cast, why couldn't they find something meaningful to do with Montoya and Allen? I mean, for pity's sake, they wasted several episodes on Selina and Ivy hanging out with Barbara, which contributed nothing whatsoever to the narrative. They devoted several episodes to Fish's captivity with the Dollmaker, which by the producers' own admission was just padding to give her something to do for the six extra episodes the network asked for. You're telling me they couldn't have possibly come up with a subplot for Montoya and Allen, even just for an episode or two in the back half of the season to convince us they were still in play? If they were going to leave out a character they didn't need for a certain span, why not leave out Selina or Barbara until they were needed again?
 
Then why set them up in the first place?
Because they only realized their mistake after they'd played out the angle of having A&M be foils for Gordon early on.

Or why not at least include a reason for their departure, like, say, a mention that Commissioner Loeb had them reassigned as a countermove against Gordon?
Because that would make sense.

Let's not forget, Allen and Montoya were set up as significant for Bruce as well as Gordon -- the ones Gordon told Bruce he could turn to if anything happened to him.
I'm allowed to forget, I wasn't watching the show closely for the first half of the season...I might not even have seen that episode.

For my part, I'm hoping that the showrunners' plans for Season 2 involve them having learned from their Season 1 mistakes and wanting to get things right this time...but you make a good point about how brainlessly sloppy they were in dealing with their cast issues in Season 1, so maybe that is too optimistic.
 
The GoT characters I mentioned are completely absent from the series' 5th season, but will be back for Season 6, and I firmly believe that such will be the case as well for Allen and Montoya come Gotham Season 2.

We'll see, though.
I haven't seen the season so I can't judge how they've treated those characters' absences on GoT, but in the interviews and stuff they've made it clear those characters will be back, but we haven't even gotten that from the Gotham writers. I don't think I ever saw Montoya and Allen mentioned anywhere once they disappeared, onscreen or off.
 
I haven't seen the season so I can't judge how they've treated those characters' absences on GoT, but in the interviews and stuff they've made it clear those characters will be back, but we haven't even gotten that from the Gotham writers. I don't think I ever saw Montoya and Allen mentioned anywhere once they disappeared, onscreen or off.

On the other hand, there's no indication that they've left the show either, no mention yet of the actors taking other jobs. It's odd.
 
In the end it seems like the first season of Gotham was to show Oswald's rise in power, no matter how far things strayed from him it always went to him. Montoya and Allen didn't really seem to jell as characters outside of causing problems for Gordon, Gordon was beset with assults from all sides though and wwe know that he wasn't bussom buddies with Loeb. ;)
 
Of course we all know that actors are hired as regulars to pay for their availability during the season. I have no problem with Crispin and Montoya disappearing but remaining regulars in case they were needed later. But a good showrunner would have given them some kind of exit, and not the 'Chuck Cunningham' treatment.

Jada Pinkett-Smith was probably too expensive not to use, and they really didn't have a story for her once the episode order was expanded past 13.
 
Cool, I've liked Frain in a lot of stuff I've seen him in. Even if the show has some issues, one thing that is definitely not a problem is the cast.
 
I haven't seen the season so I can't judge how they've treated those characters' absences on GoT, but in the interviews and stuff they've made it clear those characters will be back, but we haven't even gotten that from the Gotham writers. I don't think I ever saw Montoya and Allen mentioned anywhere once they disappeared, onscreen or off.

On the other hand, there's no indication that they've left the show either, no mention yet of the actors taking other jobs. It's odd.

The opening scene of the new season should be Cobblepot pushing them off a bridge.
 
Cool, I've liked Frain in a lot of stuff I've seen him in. Even if the show has some issues, one thing that is definitely not a problem is the cast.

Now, would it be bad or good if he basically did Ferdinand from Orphan Black?
 
In the end it seems like the first season of Gotham was to show Oswald's rise in power, no matter how far things strayed from him it always went to him. Montoya and Allen didn't really seem to jell as characters outside of causing problems for Gordon, Gordon was beset with assults from all sides though and wwe know that he wasn't bussom buddies with Loeb. ;)

I for one am very happy about that. Robin Lord Taylor is a very interesting actor and made me actually like Penguin.

I'm interested to see if they do follow the rise of the Joker like is rumored for next season though.
 
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