I think that thanks to our good doctor Mrs.Crusher, Picard didnt try to destroy entire Borg species when he had a chance. When i watch this episode guys i get very angry beacuse come on we are talking about Borg you cant show them mercy if you do they will kick your ass like in the First Contact
Good job Beverly
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I don't know whether or not I agree with their decision, but I can understand why they made it. Today, we have no issue attempting to eradicate some viruses that have the potential to annihilate vast numbers of humans or human civilizations. We do that without compunction because they aren't considered to be intelligent life. (Or even truly life, depending who you talk to.)
The Borg, undeniably, are an intelligent race. Sure, a frighteningly alien and menacing intelligence, but nonetheless, that is the purpose of the Federation, seeking out and attempting to understand and respect a place for all such beings. And what they found with Hugh, and Beverly and Geordi fought for, was that in addition to intelligence, they also, at least some, had potential for individuality and rehabilitation. Would you expect any less of a moral viewpoint from two senior staff in the Federation?
And it wasn't totally a lost cause either. In Descent II, Hugh and some of the other Borg saved the day bringing down Lore and his dutiful Borg as he was about to kill Picard. Yes, Lore found the Borg then ruined by their half-assed backup plan and that's how the crew got in that spot to begin with, but it also sort of worked. Hugh and the other Borg who chose (former assimilated Borg making a choice) to stay with Hugh and retain individuality and a different path did. In the future, who can really predict what an asset that might turn out to be?
The Borg, undeniably, are an intelligent race. Sure, a frighteningly alien and menacing intelligence, but nonetheless, that is the purpose of the Federation, seeking out and attempting to understand and respect a place for all such beings. And what they found with Hugh, and Beverly and Geordi fought for, was that in addition to intelligence, they also, at least some, had potential for individuality and rehabilitation. Would you expect any less of a moral viewpoint from two senior staff in the Federation?
And it wasn't totally a lost cause either. In Descent II, Hugh and some of the other Borg saved the day bringing down Lore and his dutiful Borg as he was about to kill Picard. Yes, Lore found the Borg then ruined by their half-assed backup plan and that's how the crew got in that spot to begin with, but it also sort of worked. Hugh and the other Borg who chose (former assimilated Borg making a choice) to stay with Hugh and retain individuality and a different path did. In the future, who can really predict what an asset that might turn out to be?
But i meanif you have a enemy who doesnt listen what you are saying isnt it logical to kill them. For example between Federation and Romulan Picard is always calm and keeps him under control because one day Federation and Romulan can become ally. However with Borg it is impossible it is like trying to negotiate with Hitler. They think they are absolutely right and they are not gonna listen you they just assimilate you
Picard didn't know the Federation and the Romulans would ever become allies. They were constantly aggressive and deceptive, using spies, hitmen and out-of-bounds technology against the Federation. For all Picard knew, the Romulans could have been working on a way to fashion the Borg against the Federation concurrently in some other place. He still stuck to his ethics.
And it's way too early in thread to Godwin it.
And it's way too early in thread to Godwin it.
The Borg are not a "race," they are a collection of individuals captured by the Borg collective from various species. If there were a million Humans (random number) who were a part of the Borg, and they were all killed, this would not eradicate Humanity.
The only way destroying the Borg would be species destruction is if the only remaining examples of a species were all Borg. And even then you would be justified under self defense.
The only way destroying the Borg would be species destruction is if the only remaining examples of a species were all Borg. And even then you would be justified under self defense.
But, Hugh was not part of the collective and had gained a modicum of "free will" and "choice", something that would not have been possible had he remained with a designation and connection to the collective.
And I would argue that while the Borg are a determined and purposeful collection, they are not all that "Intelligent". They have capacity for a certain logic, but not much in the way of abstract thought, and a pretty narrow understanding of intangibles. By definition, no self-awareness (no self), a singular focus of communication, machine-like learning, certainly no emotional knowledge, only a hive memory, and planning, creativity and problem-solving all limited to the goal of assimilation. All examples of the definition of "Intelligent."
The dilema, of course, is, does one let a predatory, destructive entity survive when there is no negotiation or communication possible? No cohabitation or mutuality. Only eventual augmentation and change to "unrecognizable" the nature of everything else alive?
And, what if the Borg reach their goal of Total Assimilation of all Species? Then what?
And I would argue that while the Borg are a determined and purposeful collection, they are not all that "Intelligent". They have capacity for a certain logic, but not much in the way of abstract thought, and a pretty narrow understanding of intangibles. By definition, no self-awareness (no self), a singular focus of communication, machine-like learning, certainly no emotional knowledge, only a hive memory, and planning, creativity and problem-solving all limited to the goal of assimilation. All examples of the definition of "Intelligent."
The dilema, of course, is, does one let a predatory, destructive entity survive when there is no negotiation or communication possible? No cohabitation or mutuality. Only eventual augmentation and change to "unrecognizable" the nature of everything else alive?
And, what if the Borg reach their goal of Total Assimilation of all Species? Then what?
The Borg are a good example of where inconsistent writing makes it had to judge the protagonists' actions; on the one hand in almost every instance they aren't even choosing to be evil, they're forced into doing it by the hive mind-programming, so destroying them wouldn't be eradicating a race, on the other hand in "I Borg" it's ridiculously quick and easy for a Borg to turn against his programming and stop being a threat (although "Descent" then suggested they had little problem being evil on their own); given that with the "I Borg" situation the problem is a real dilemma and it's good that later episodes at least to some degree challenged the decision made.
This is how I see it, maybe I'm too simple, but they didn't seem too upset when the thousands of borg died when the cube heading for Earth in BoBW II. Those borg had just killed quite a bit of Star Fleet personell and whoever else got in their way, fine. Almost everytime we hear about more borg it's because they are destroying colonies or killing various colonists or crewpeople. There's never been a peaceful borg that just showed up and said they wanted to communicate. Saying all of this there could be no other rational decision but to infect "Hugh" with any kind of virus, program, or disease they could think of. Just because he seems like a cuddly widdle guy when he's cut off from the collective, just wait til he gets his WiFi back and see how lovable he is. I, Borg was one of the episodes that really hurts TNG for me. How could they be so selfish and short sighted? I have the potential to slow down, possibly even eliminate the greatest threat to the Federation and I won't because I might not feel good about it right after? It makes me crazy. Well, that's not hard about the crazy but I just can't take it and I never watch this episode because it just pisses me off.
Maybe Bev just missed Wes too much, a nerdy akward human shaped thing that's good with technology was there and she immediately thought of her son.
Maybe Bev just missed Wes too much, a nerdy akward human shaped thing that's good with technology was there and she immediately thought of her son.
If you're not reluctant to attempt genocide, what are you reluctant to attempt? Close dancing?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard taking the Moral High Ground is nothing new and Bev's been shot down by him before, when she tried taking that road, like in "Symbiosis." Crusher could've cured the drug addicts and allowed the culture of these aliens to blossom, but Picard poo-poo'd that in favour of his Moral High Ground. And this is with people who think and feel and are aware of their individuality.
With STAR TREK, there is always this strange duality between the show's own In-Universe logic and the simple fact that it is still fiction. On the fiction front, there's this sort of belief that there can't be anything contrary to reality in a show that's not real. So, we get episodes like "Inner Light" which make no sense in their own right, but are celebrated, just the same, because of certain aspects of Picard's character that got bolded and underscored so that the faithful can feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
It's just the way STAR TREK, as a whole, has always rolled. So, it doesn't matter how "right" Picard would've been to zap the Borg with a virus to wipe them all out ... none of that matters. What matters is that he takes the Moral High Ground, because ... he's Captain Picard. And sometimes these types of situations are brought up in TNG in particular and entertainment in general, only to BE shot down, in the first place, to exaggerate the nobility of the Hero in whose hands the fate of us all resides. So, I just accept it and I don't even question the shit.
With STAR TREK, there is always this strange duality between the show's own In-Universe logic and the simple fact that it is still fiction. On the fiction front, there's this sort of belief that there can't be anything contrary to reality in a show that's not real. So, we get episodes like "Inner Light" which make no sense in their own right, but are celebrated, just the same, because of certain aspects of Picard's character that got bolded and underscored so that the faithful can feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
It's just the way STAR TREK, as a whole, has always rolled. So, it doesn't matter how "right" Picard would've been to zap the Borg with a virus to wipe them all out ... none of that matters. What matters is that he takes the Moral High Ground, because ... he's Captain Picard. And sometimes these types of situations are brought up in TNG in particular and entertainment in general, only to BE shot down, in the first place, to exaggerate the nobility of the Hero in whose hands the fate of us all resides. So, I just accept it and I don't even question the shit.
I think the genocide that was happening was every civilization destroyed by the borg. This might have stopped it.
Good post.
But if we don't question what will we fill up the forums with? 
The Borg aren't a race, they're a very contagious illness.
I don't see how, on Star Trek TNG, they could have ended an episode by sacrificing an individual's freedom. It just wasn't the tone of the show and they wrote themselves into a really dumb corner by making that the choice. Of course if you can sacrifice one life to save billions, you do it.
I don't see how, on Star Trek TNG, they could have ended an episode by sacrificing an individual's freedom. It just wasn't the tone of the show and they wrote themselves into a really dumb corner by making that the choice. Of course if you can sacrifice one life to save billions, you do it.
Here's a thought; there's no indication that the processor hang that the paradox would create would apply to those separated from the hive mind. Hugh could have transmitted the program and then broken the link with the collective, letting the rest of them flail around and compute until they could flail no more.
Probably would have sounded like a shipful of Daleks though...
COMPUTE COMPUTE DOES NOT COMPUTE EXPLAIN EXPLAIN
Probably would have sounded like a shipful of Daleks though...
COMPUTE COMPUTE DOES NOT COMPUTE EXPLAIN EXPLAIN
Actually, that makes me think of another question about the borg, at least in respect to how they are shown later on, like in First Contact.
Are the Borg those people shaped things with the stuff on them, Q introduced them as an Enhanced Humanoid, or were the "real" Borg those nanoprobes that start the conversion and all of those pasty faced guys with the hardware like that as a result of the infection? If you could kill the nanoprobes maybe the borgified people would no longer act like that? I think most of the "it's genocide" people wouldn't find that as hard to take, but I realize this is a later modification of the borg and at the time of the "hugh" incident it didn't exist yet.
Understood & Confirmed. In the spirit of questioning this episode, then, I don't know why "they" even brought up this possibility of ending the Borg species, at all. TNG had NO desire to get rid of the best villian STAR TREK's ever had, so why even cover this possibility in any of the episodes? The Borg aren't going anywhere in this franchise, so having Picard have to decide on something we, the audience, already know the answer to doesn't look good for the writers. The Borg virus option is just a red herring and as such is sort of lazy writing, really.
Like the Riker episode "Shades of Grey," for example. Is Frakes leaving the show? No. Is Riker being written out? No. So having him on his deathbed for an hour is kind of defeatest, entertainment wise. I mean you can't even "hope" for Riker's recovery - you KNOW he's going to, regardless of what Pulaski says to the contrary. Red Herring episodes always sort of let the air out of the balloon ...
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