Perhaps Vulcan diplomats offered their services and wrapped it up in 10.
Godless souls!!!
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
Soul (in the Western tradition) is a Platonic concept (the only good things were immortal, incorruptible, like a soul) picked up by New Testament times. In Old Testament, one died and went down to Sheol, the pit or grave, "down to sleep with one's ancestors." One lived on through one's kids. Blessed was the man [sic] whose quiver was full of them (Psalm 127).
Hindus REALLY get into souls. They're not mentioned by the OP. I wonder how they'd deal with transporter. I truly believe it creates a new person, though we are never the same person from moment to momen; we are an event, like a river, down at the atomic level. Does the transporter have any reincarnation implications?
Hindus REALLY get into souls. They're not mentioned by the OP. I wonder how they'd deal with transporter. I truly believe it creates a new person, though we are never the same person from moment to momen; we are an event, like a river, down at the atomic level. Does the transporter have any reincarnation implications?
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Innocent omission on my part. My best friend is Hindu, and i lived with him for a year in India..very wondeful people and culture...
Rob
i. love. this.
but it does seem to me that the general explanation for a transporter is that it breaks down your body - the original one - to its molecular basis and transfers that via conversion to energy and back to your destination. (this is possible. even now scientists are working on exactly this, creating matter from energy and vice-versa.) so, at the end, when re-constituted, you are the same self in the same body that you were in the beginning. and anyway, if a soul is something which exists outside of the physical realm, moving the body should have little to no effect on it, yes?
but it does seem to me that the general explanation for a transporter is that it breaks down your body - the original one - to its molecular basis and transfers that via conversion to energy and back to your destination. (this is possible. even now scientists are working on exactly this, creating matter from energy and vice-versa.) so, at the end, when re-constituted, you are the same self in the same body that you were in the beginning. and anyway, if a soul is something which exists outside of the physical realm, moving the body should have little to no effect on it, yes?
RobertScorpio
Pariah
What about scotty in relics?? When he was stuck in the transporter, and saw no passage of time, and if he had a soul, where was it in between the two solid states of scotty? Maybe when Kirk and company switched universe (the mirror universe) they actually switched souls!!!
Rob
aww geez, man. and i was really enjoying your threads here. 
all i can think is that perhaps the writers didn't major in theology in college.
but at their basis, i can't imagine that 1)transporters could possibly have much effect on something ephemeral, and 2)that too many writers wanted to this deeply into it. this last would seem quite a pity, in my estimation.
all i can think is that perhaps the writers didn't major in theology in college.
but at their basis, i can't imagine that 1)transporters could possibly have much effect on something ephemeral, and 2)that too many writers wanted to this deeply into it. this last would seem quite a pity, in my estimation.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
aww geez, man. and i was really enjoying your threads here.
all i can think is that perhaps the writers didn't major in theology in college.
but at their basis, i can't imagine that 1)transporters could possibly have much effect on something ephemeral, and 2)that too many writers wanted to this deeply into it. this last would seem quite a pity, in my estimation.
agreed...
Mirror Mirror was a great episode from TOS. Spock's goatee was a classic!!!
Rob
^absolutely! 
as for souls therein, i bet that in parallel universes, theoretically it could be the same soul, just shaped differently by genetics and environment. i mean, who knows how any of us would behave in a more warlike universe? kirk was still an ass and spock was still his right-hand man. so, to some extent i believe, in trek and in general, that there are certain aspects which are inherent to the individual, but it can be difficult to differentiate between these and aspects of other influences.
as for souls therein, i bet that in parallel universes, theoretically it could be the same soul, just shaped differently by genetics and environment. i mean, who knows how any of us would behave in a more warlike universe? kirk was still an ass and spock was still his right-hand man. so, to some extent i believe, in trek and in general, that there are certain aspects which are inherent to the individual, but it can be difficult to differentiate between these and aspects of other influences.
Or religious people in a hurry. After all, only a teeny weeny percentage of today's Christians even know their bible, let alone pay attention to the contents. Which is probably just as well, considering the nature of those contents... They get on with their lives and do things that would send any 0th century rabbi to an early grave from heart attack (and then provide constant earthquakes in the cemetery area).
Only a small number of extremists sign into the "no blood transfusions" thing, for example, because transfusions are simply so very convenient. It's easy to ignore the sillier aspects of holy writ, or to interpret them in a manner that supports good living. Given how good the transporter is at making life easy, it shouldn't be a matter of years before said writ were quoted as clearly stating that transporting is a-okay - it should be a matter of weeks.
Is there anything about modern technology that the mainstream Christians would shun on the basis of their faith? Anything at all? Christians freely operate anything from semi-automatic firearms to digital cameras to contraceptives when those are convenient for them. That contraceptives aren't such a big hit is no doubt related to the fact that they are not convenient - they don't make the average man's life any easier, quite to the contrary, and the woman has little say anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
Only a small number of extremists sign into the "no blood transfusions" thing, for example, because transfusions are simply so very convenient. It's easy to ignore the sillier aspects of holy writ, or to interpret them in a manner that supports good living. Given how good the transporter is at making life easy, it shouldn't be a matter of years before said writ were quoted as clearly stating that transporting is a-okay - it should be a matter of weeks.
Is there anything about modern technology that the mainstream Christians would shun on the basis of their faith? Anything at all? Christians freely operate anything from semi-automatic firearms to digital cameras to contraceptives when those are convenient for them. That contraceptives aren't such a big hit is no doubt related to the fact that they are not convenient - they don't make the average man's life any easier, quite to the contrary, and the woman has little say anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
We are being "transported" every minute. The body is a living system and cells are constantly being replenished and discarded. The point is, the soul is not an organ, it's a metaphor. These kinds of arguments are futile.
There were references to religions in the Trek universe. The show just didn't go there. I guess there was no need to display ignorance and intolerance in the 22nd century.
There were references to religions in the Trek universe. The show just didn't go there. I guess there was no need to display ignorance and intolerance in the 22nd century.
Please explain then why when Picard was in the Nexus. Supposedly in his most wanted setting it was with his family at...Christmas.
There definitely seemed to be a concept of a Christian God amongst some of the human characters I saw over the years, but I'm don't know if that would necessarily translate into them believing in organized religion and all the nonsense that entails.
and christmas proves nothing. it's based heavily on a pagan holiday, and my wiccan dad insists on putting up a tree every year and doing the whole bit.
Even today, Christmas has very little to do with religion. A lot of people who celebrate Christmas aren't religious at all; they simply like the tree, the decorations, the family get-together and such. It's become more of a setting then an actual religious celebration.
And it continues to hold a deeper religious meaning for a great many people as well, despite its commercialization.
Picard's position on faith was summed up for Nagilum posing as Commander Data - that "the universe is vastly complex and he is unable to say for sure if there is life after death, but he believes there is something more to experience out there."
In other words, he never labeled it one way or the other for our benefit, as befitting his private nature.
Picard's position on faith was summed up for Nagilum posing as Commander Data - that "the universe is vastly complex and he is unable to say for sure if there is life after death, but he believes there is something more to experience out there."
In other words, he never labeled it one way or the other for our benefit, as befitting his private nature.
That's one of the reasons I believe organized religion are reduced to a few cults in Star Trek's future. They're one big agnostic-like family, where everybody simply believes what feels best for him/her. It's a bit hard to do otherwise, as well, with all those alien species having their own religions. You'd have 25 religious events every day of the year.
^absolutely!
as for souls therein, i bet that in parallel universes, theoretically it could be the same soul, just shaped differently by genetics and environment. i mean, who knows how any of us would behave in a more warlike universe? kirk was still an ass and spock was still his right-hand man. so, to some extent i believe, in trek and in general, that there are certain aspects which are inherent to the individual, but it can be difficult to differentiate between these and aspects of other influences.
Whether or not it's the same soul, I would have no idea--I did actually have this happen in a Round Robin. My alternate version of Dukat (who is a believer in the Oralian Way) was forced to confront the knowledge of what the canon Dukat has done, and he found that extremely disturbing, because he himself has no idea what the answer is and what that means for him.
Sigh ...
The conscience itself is stored in the brain, correct?
When a person goes through the transporter, usually they are put into suspended animation for a brief period of time ... for the main characters though, this may not seem evident, so they can talk during the materialization process and to anyone who would even observe it, it would seem they were talking throughout the entire way.
In Scotty's case ... he was effectively in suspended animation for a long period of time and as a result his conscience has submerged
It's still in his brain, just not perceiving anything (inactive) because the physical senses are in a suspended animation ... akin to going to sleep for the most part but without entering REM state.
Points well taken. I do however think some posters personal views are coloring their "forcasts".
I remember an episode of TOS, cant remember the name but someone was talking to Kirk about "Gods" and he replyed "We find the One quite suffeciant". And TNG episode where Picard "dies" durring a heart opreation and theres Q. Picards first thought was (maybe in jest) That Q was his guide in the after life.
Q enen quips about knowing God. And I don't think he was joking.
I see nothing in the Star Trek universe that says Humanity has abadondoned God.
I remember an episode of TOS, cant remember the name but someone was talking to Kirk about "Gods" and he replyed "We find the One quite suffeciant". And TNG episode where Picard "dies" durring a heart opreation and theres Q. Picards first thought was (maybe in jest) That Q was his guide in the after life.
Q enen quips about knowing God. And I don't think he was joking.
I see nothing in the Star Trek universe that says Humanity has abadondoned God.
Similar threads
