Godless souls!!!

[RobertScorpio]

Since the Transporter, as I think it works, destroys the body and makes a new one in its place, I wonder how the Christians of Trek's future thought about it? I mean, the moment you are transported your original 'you' is destroyed and you go on with your life. Now, in between where you are when you are transported, and when you take form on the recieving end, I wonder what happens in that instant to your soul? Or does this prove we don't have souls, and that everything, even our memories, our dreams, are just results of simple biological function.

In any event, you have to think Christians/Muslims/Jews would all have an issue with using the Transporter if indeed thats what happens...

What do you think? Does it prove, as I guess Roddenberry wanted all along, that we are all Godless souls???

Rob

 

[137th Gebirg]

Well, speaking from a purely metaphysical and non-scientific point of view, it could be argued that the body acts like a radio receiver that operates on one specific frequency that is unique from any other body. This frequency "picks up" the "soul signal" assigned to that body - disintegrating it and reintegrating it would be analogous to disassembling a radio, reassembling it in a different location and turning it on. It would just take a little bit of time for the body to find the right "soul channel".

I am, of course, talking out of my ass on this whole thing, as it will never be proven until some brave person builds one of these things and finds out the hard way, possibly sacrificing him/herself for science. Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever know. Matter transportation might only be relegated to replication of things from raw materials. A controlled "micro-wormhole" may be a better way to go for point-to-point transportation in the long run.

 

[Marie1]

I think that we "are" souls, so if you go through a transporter, and are alive on the other side... you're fine.

 

[mb22]

A soul (however one defines it) isn't corporal so what difference would a normal transporter operation make?

There is probably a bigger question regarding the two Kirks in "The Enemy Within".

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Yep, and the Will/Tom Riker problem as well.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^^^ Yep, and the Will/Tom Riker problem as well.

Great episode by the way..great FX when Will Riker walks all the way around Thomas..how did they do that?

Rob

 

[Creedence]

Not this again...

 

[Timo]

If somebody gets worried about the fate of his or her or its eternal soul in the unholy clutches of the transporter, this somebody can simply go to the Vulcans or the Bajorans for spiritual soothing. Those species have readily demonstrable (at least to a fellow Vulcan/Bajoran, and probably to any touch-telepath species) empirical proof that their soul-equivalents survive transportation just fine. Would a Christian admit that his or her soul is not as good as the Vulcan or Bajoran ones in this respect?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

The main objection to transporters is apparently religion and the concept of losing one's 'soul'.
Sheesh ...

From Trek's POV ... these things are not an issue since transporters were explained in Trek to work on the premise of merely converting the body into energy and moving that energy to a different location and re-assemble it into a material body again.
Transporters don't kill you or make a copy of you (under standard circumstances that is).
For example ... what happened to Riker is akin to having a multiple personality disorder ... only in this case, the other personality got it's own body and it's experiences began to diverge from the moment the accident occurred.

The 'original' is actually both of them ... it just that their lives diverged from their personal perspectives.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The main objection to transporters is apparently religion and the concept of losing one's 'soul'.
Sheesh ...

From Trek's POV ... these things are not an issue since transporters were explained in Trek to work on the premise of merely converting the body into energy and moving that energy to a different location and re-assemble it into a material body again.
Transporters don't kill you or make a copy of you (under standard circumstances that is).
For example ... what happened to Riker is akin to having a multiple personality disorder ... only in this case, the other personality got it's own body and it's experiences began to diverge from the moment the accident occurred.

The 'original' is actually both of them ... it just that their lives diverged from their personal perspectives.

its not that easy. For you, and I, perhaps non-believers, thats a simple explaination. But I hardly believe that today, if suddenly a Transporter existed, millions of believers in "souls" would take it that easy since there is already a growing debate with religous folks as to whether CLONES have souls or not...

Rob

 

[Green Shirt]

Not this again...

Unfortunately, this (along with THAT other favorite subject of the agenda pushers on this board) isn't likely to go away. Just grin and bear it. Its the price we pay for free speech.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Not this again...

Unfortunately, this (along with THAT other favorite subject of the agenda pushers on this board) isn't likely to go away. Just grin and bear it. Its the price we pay for free speech.

So...send your $$$ to Paramount right now..they love it

Rob

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Religion had withered away, which was a good thing. Otherwise, you're right - nobody would use a transporter!!!

Or maybe the soul zips along beside the beam of light, energy or whatever it's supposed to be, and re-enters the new body at the other end? You'd think a soul should be smart enough to do that.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Religion had withered away, which was a good thing.

This.

Faith? I'm sure there still is faith; for example, faith in humanity and faith in one's self.
Beliefs? I'm sure there are beliefs also; there are always unknowns.
Organized religions? I doubt there are any left. Perhaps a few fringe cults still exist in the Star Trek universe, for those very out of touch.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Religion had withered away, which was a good thing.

This. Faith? I'm sure there still is faith; for example, faith in humanity and faith in one's self. Belifs? I'm sure there are beliefs also; there are always unknowns. But organized religion? I doubt there are any left; perhaps a few fringe cults for those out of touch with the bigger reality.

Unfortunately that is the most unrealistic part of TREK. I see no evidence that religion will fade away in just 3 or 4 hundred years. But in Star Trek's universe it did..ours? I dont see it. Isreal and the Palestinans will be negotiating a 'seperate state' for another 1000 years; at least!

Rob

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Indeed, I agree with that.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Just get the Pope to sprinkle holy water on the blueprint of the transporter. It would do just fine.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Well, speaking from a purely metaphysical and non-scientific point of view, it could be argued that the body acts like a radio receiver that operates on one specific frequency that is unique from any other body. This frequency "picks up" the "soul signal" assigned to that body - disintegrating it and reintegrating it would be analogous to disassembling a radio, reassembling it in a different location and turning it on. It would just take a little bit of time for the body to find the right "soul channel".

I am, of course, talking out of my ass on this whole thing, as it will never be proven until some brave person builds one of these things and finds out the hard way, possibly sacrificing him/herself for science. Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever know. Matter transportation might only be relegated to replication of things from raw materials. A controlled "micro-wormhole" may be a better way to go for point-to-point transportation in the long run.

That's about the way I would see it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Since the Transporter, as I think it works, destroys the body and makes a new one in its place

No, I don't see it that way.

How else could you explain "Realm of Fear"? We saw the point of view of the person being transported, from origin to destination, in real time.

The body isn't destroyed, it's simply *moved*.

 

[RyuRoots]

Let cultists think what they want. That's one thing I like about the future of Trek. It seems like we're not immature enough to still cling to beliefs like that because we're afraid of death anymore. Besides, whatever any religion defines a "soul" or whatever as, it's never been discovered in biology. So even if biologically you get broken down to molecules, it wouldn't affect a soul, if you believe in one.