Global Warming to be worse than expected

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I was around in the 70s too, and remember the concerns about a looming ice age. But it wasn't as big a deal as AGW is today.

Yep. No one ran around "worried about it." It was a scientific hypothesis that some people were aware of, but there was no public or policy concern. Nada.

The "global warming skeptics" (that name is for the most part inappropriate; most of them are not so much skeptics as propagandists) have created this fantasy about how the "predicted ice age" was somehow equivalent thirty years ago to the current scientific concern about climate change. The ruse depends on people either not remembering or being stupid.

 

[Psion]

Ahhhh ... so voicing doubts makes one a "propagandist", eh?

Actually, I should give you more credit than that ... the whole subject is so mired in politics and activism that climate science is hopelessly damaged for at least a generation. There are a fair number of propagandists on both sides of the debate ... and good and bad scientists as well.

 

[TerriO]

IIRC, I was more worried about nuclear war than global cooling back in those days.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Ahhhh ... so voicing doubts makes one a "propagandist", eh?

No, propagandizing about stuff like "the global cooling scare" while pretending to "voice doubts" makes one a propagandist.

You want to read about an actual independent thinker on the subject, go read about Freeman Dyson (who does, btw, mention the "ice age" in passing).

 

[cynical dreamer]

"Global Warming" is a crock of SHITE!!! Same goes for it's other title "Climate Change".

This is bogus pseudo-science designed for one purpose: To create a new tax!

As if we need another one with this socialist bunch of scumbags in charge!

The mountains of peer-reviewed research by the overwhelming majority of climate scientists would seem to disagree with you.

 

[Psion]

"Global Warming" is a crock of SHITE!!! Same goes for it's other title "Climate Change".

This is bogus pseudo-science designed for one purpose: To create a new tax!

As if we need another one with this socialist bunch of scumbags in charge!

The mountains of peer-reviewed research by the overwhelming majority of climate scientists would seem to disagree with you.

As I recall, there was considerable support for the Piltdown Man for a couple of decades, too. And about two generations of opposition to plate tectonics. There's an awful lot of money backing AGW right now, and a lot of political power opposing dissent.

 

[noknowes]

I just wish the damn ice would hurry up and melt. It would make little difference to me and hopefully I won't have to hear about it melting anymore because it'll have already melted.

Ditto.

I think it is just normal temperature variations over geological time periods and it is just nonsense conjured up by the media and a few doom mongers at the behest of the green lobby.

The Earth will adjust automatically via biological feedback to adjust.New Scientist reported the tree trunks were growing wider due to higher levels of CO2.Thus absorbing extra co2.
In fact I would suggest it could actually be a good thing as we need jungles to replace the destroyed jungles.

No need to be concerned we can leave this planet,when we invent star travel,which can only only be a matter of time over the next 50 years or even sooner ,and move on to the billions and trillions of planets out there waiting for us.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No need to be concerned we can leave this planet,when we invent star travel,which can only only be a matter of time over the next 50 years or even sooner ,and move on to the billions and trillions of planets out there waiting for us.

Not happenin', sorry.

 

[TerriO]

No need to be concerned we can leave this planet,when we invent star travel,which can only only be a matter of time over the next 50 years or even sooner ,and move on to the billions and trillions of planets out there waiting for us.

I believe this is the textbook definition of "cockeyed optimism."

We already have "star travel", it's just not fast enough yet.

We'll need to develop the tech for generational vessels if we're going to move on to those planets, because the odds of the first crew of the ship is going to be the group that lands on whatever extrasolar planet we approach? Wouldn't take those on a bet.

 

[lawman]

Just this week, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, in an conference to set the agenda for the next U.N. conference in December are again claiming that global warming is accelerating beyond the worst predictions and threatening to trigger "irreversible" shifts on the planet.

The World has heard that claim over and over again.

The Earth will change, and Human life on the Earth will certainly change, but even in the most dire versions of the future, Humans always adapt and survive.

That seems like an awfully callous point of view. No one (to my knowledge) has claimed that humanity will go extinct. So, stipulated: the species will survive.

(At least, the species always has survived thus far. Of course, we're nowhere near the average mammalian species lifespan yet, and our current tech level—with all its destructive externalities—is completely unprecedented.

But let's not be doomsayers. We've always survived before. Thing is, it's often involved long period of social and cultural collapse, and/or drastic reductions in population.

I can't think of any pleasant ways of undergoing drastic reductions in population. Can you?)

So the real question is, how will we survive? What sort of quality of life will we have, and how many people can sustainably have it? How much suffering and death will there be along the way, for how long?

What do you think the carrying capacity of the planet Earth is, going forward? What sort of standard of living do you see as sustainable for that population? Even given optimistic assumptions about climate change, these are serious questions... and they merit serious policy responses, sooner rather than later.

And if political history demonstrates anything, it's that most people aren't good at taking the long-term view of anything, especially risk assessment. Democratic societies tend not to react to problems until they've reached crisis proportions. So unseemly as it may appear, "sky is falling" rhetoric may well be entirely necessary here in order to drive any action at all.

 

[noknowes]

No need to be concerned we can leave this planet,when we invent star travel,which can only only be a matter of time over the next 50 years or even sooner ,and move on to the billions and trillions of planets out there waiting for us.

I believe this is the textbook definition of "cockeyed optimism."

We already have "star travel", it's just not fast enough yet.

We'll need to develop the tech for generational vessels if we're going to move on to those planets, because the odds of the first crew of the ship is going to be the group that lands on whatever extrasolar planet we approach? Wouldn't take those on a bet.

I don't mean generational ships at all.

I said star travel based on some of the theories being explored which circumvent c restrictions.

it is tiresome to hear all this doom and gloom.

Most of it is just STATISTICAL nonsense.It is just a media fad.

already a new fad about swine flu has started.

by picking and choosing you can prove anything.

global variations occur all the time.i suggest you look up global warming hoax to get a saner,alternative view.

we need to stop wasting money on glabl warming and spend it on star travel methods.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

we need to stop wasting money on glabl[sic] warming and spend it on star travel methods.

Not one penny for this crazy fantasy.

 

[Psion]

we need to stop wasting money on glabl[sic] warming and spend it on star travel methods.

Not one penny for this crazy fantasy.

Which one?

 

[noknowes]

"Global Warming" is a crock of SHITE!!! Same goes for it's other title "Climate Change".

This is bogus pseudo-science designed for one purpose: To create a new tax!

As if we need another one with this socialist bunch of scumbags in charge!

The mountains of peer-reviewed research by the overwhelming majority of climate scientists would seem to disagree with you.

It is impossible to measure the temperature of a planet due to its sheer size and huge 3 dimensional variability.

 

[Butters]

"Global Warming" is a crock of SHITE!!! Same goes for it's other title "Climate Change".

This is bogus pseudo-science designed for one purpose: To create a new tax!

As if we need another one with this socialist bunch of scumbags in charge!

The mountains of peer-reviewed research by the overwhelming majority of climate scientists would seem to disagree with you.

If I were a climate scientist, my research would lean toward the popular funding streams too. Everyone has to make a living and the longer this climate hysteria goes on the more people will jump on the band wagon to add their opinion to the body of truth, leaving those who cling to reason and objective criticism increasingly labelled as heratics. This is the same witch-hunt mentality that should have died in Salem. I wouldn't just check a persons credentials, I'd check their interests and motives too before worshiping their research.

I live on the coast and would be effected by sea level rise, if I believed in it. Living in Blighty I'm at least a three hour flight from a cool beer in the hot sun, but I can only afford to do that once a year and I refuse to be guilted in to missing out on what the rich take for granted. I also doubt I'll live past 2050, by which time peak oil should be taking care of the emmisions issue and over population, in which, the damage is done. No point crying over spilt milk, Earth will take care of itself, with or without us.

So, my question is, for whom is global warming worse than expected?

 

[scotthm]

We'll need to develop the tech for generational vessels if we're going to move on to those planets...

We will never find a planet as hospitable to us as Earth is--even a very messed up Earth.

---------------

 

[lawman]

If I were a climate scientist, my research would lean toward the popular funding streams too. Everyone has to make a living and the longer this climate hysteria goes on the more people will jump on the band wagon to add their opinion to the body of truth...

There are always scientists cynical enough to follow the money with no regard for truth. But to imply that they represent a majority, much less a consensus, is far more cynical on your part. There was always plenty of money behind research that showed tobacco was harmless, for instance, but most scientists preferred to stick to their principles and report the danger.

For that matter, at least tobacco had an obvious profit motive. Who are you claiming profits from climate change research? If anything, the big money is in the oil industry and its allies, who fund the "climate skeptics."

I live on the coast and would be effected by sea level rise, if I believed in it.

Interesting way of thinking. I'd submit that you'll be affected whether or not you believe in it.

I also doubt I'll live past 2050, by which time peak oil should be taking care of the emmisions issue and over population...

Wow, that's incredibly callous. So if it doesn't hurt you, just billions of other people, that's just fine?

No point crying over spilt milk, Earth will take care of itself, with or without us.

Well, the underlying premise for this sort of discussion is that people care about the survival of the human race. If you don't, I suppose there isn't much worth talking about.

 

[Butters]

I also doubt I'll live past 2050, by which time peak oil should be taking care of the emmisions issue and over population...

Wow, that's incredibly callous. So if it doesn't hurt you, just billions of other people, that's just fine?

You miss my point. The Carbon Economy and the era of cheap energy will not last forever and the current situation of a massive population of gas guzzling city dwellers will end of its own accord. It will be painful for all but the most powerful. I sincerely hope I am long dead before this chapter of humanity history begins.

No point crying over spilt milk, Earth will take care of itself, with or without us.

Well, the underlying premise for this sort of discussion is that people care about the survival of the human race. If you don't, I suppose there isn't much worth talking about.[/QUOTE]

Yes I care about the world after my departure, but if the global impact of 250 years of industrial activity is anything as bad as the envirohitlers claim then me not leaving my telly on standby overnight is not going to have one jot of an effect. Theres a lot of doom-mongering and guilt tripping going on that is frankly unjustified, especially when the economic slowdown in the near term and increasing cost of oil in the long term will achieve everything the ecowarriors want anyway.

Clean air, environmental management and energy efficiency are massively important, but freaking out about the loss of polar ice? So what? It'll return someday. In the meantime, we all pay green tax like good little westerners.

Sooner or later, everyone will be bored of this.

 

[noknowes]

You mean we better not talk about something that will change life as we know it? I prefer talking.

I would think my idea would allow for serious discussion on what a person thinks about global warming and what they as individuals are doing to help. Posting links is not a discussion.

Have no fear.As I said before it is impossible to measure the temperature of a planet due to its sheer size and huge 3 dimensional variability.
Anyone who claims to measure global warming is misguided or delusional.

 

[Garrovick]

You mean we better not talk about something that will change life as we know it? I prefer talking.

I would think my idea would allow for serious discussion on what a person thinks about global warming and what they as individuals are doing to help. Posting links is not a discussion.

Have no fear.As I said before it is impossible to measure the temperature of a planet due to its sheer size and huge 3 dimensional variability.
Anyone who claims to measure global warming is misguided or delusional.

My only real interest in this "global warming" is clean air. Everyone likes fresh clean air. The rest of it is just media hype.