No kidding. Fuck this thread.
Girls rule, boys drool
- Thread starter Shaka Zulu
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You guys are disgusting and disrespectful. Female heroes can look any way they damn well please.
Interesting to know that my guess as to what the metaphor originally meant is wrong. So I'm correct is saying that, now, using this metaphor means you are against whatever is accused of being "badly designed or out of adjustment," like too many female heroes () but you're bullshitting about how you're really just for the proper adjustment or good design. Faking reasonableness by making a comforting noise, a cliche. Good to know that too.
Refuting a guess about where the cliche came from doesn't magically give it any valid meaning.
I was neither endorsing nor challenging the content of MacLeod's posts. I was only pointing out that the pendulum metaphor itself makes perfect sense and that it was applied correctly.
Understanding how the pendulum metaphor ticks (har, har) is far more interesting to me than the flawed article cited in the OP.
Yeah, treating women like crap sure is fucking hilarious.
Whether it's a joke or not is irrelevant if it's perpetuating damaging attitudes. I don't take everything too seriously, but I do take some things seriously, including the longstanding view of a woman's existence being "for" a man. It's unfortunate that you don't care about this, but I do. Women do not exist solely to fulfill the desires of men. You can say "But I didn't say that," and you didn't say those exact words, but that is the message that your post sends. It's an old message, it's an offensive message, and it's not a joke. If you're interested in knowing how you send that message, why it's damaging, or how to stop, please let me know and I'd be glad to discuss this in more detail.
Don't you have sandwiches to make?
Those jokes mock women being anything but eyecandy. Trying to say it's just a joke, is belittling someone unwilling to be treated like crap. The jokes weren't funny, and the lame defensiveness is even less so.
To be perfectly honest, I am equally bothered by sexist jokes as I am by dogmatic insistence on political correctness.
But it requires profound immaturity to hijack a thread about discussing women's roles and portrayals in action films to make gawking remarks about catsuits.
And it is quite possible to be an empowered female who is not there to satisfy male gaze without regarding any male as a depraved troglodyte for not agreeing item for item with one's personal views.
But it requires profound immaturity to hijack a thread about discussing women's roles and portrayals in action films to make gawking remarks about catsuits.
And it is quite possible to be an empowered female who is not there to satisfy male gaze without regarding any male as a depraved troglodyte for not agreeing item for item with one's personal views.
I'm not sure how this is relevant here.
There's a great male hero who is a fantastic role-model: The Doctor. He preaches non-violence, is accepting of all different people, and generally believes humanity can do better. The idea that there aren't good male role-models is hogwash.
Do Autobots count? Because Optimus Prime would certainly qualify as a role model.
Interesting to know that my guess as to what the metaphor originally meant is wrong. So I'm correct is saying that, now, using this metaphor means you are against whatever is accused of being "badly designed or out of adjustment," like too many female heroes (
Refuting a guess about where the cliche came from doesn't magically give it any valid meaning.
Do we or have had too many male heros at the expense of female heros probably, but the solution is not too to have too many female heroes at the expense of too few male ones. The ideal solution would be for a balance of 1:1 female to male heroes.
The solution is to have whatever amount of male and female heroes are appropriate to the story. And to not always be telling stories that are skewed toward male power fantasies.
Oh, and to the OP, yes the article is completely full of it. In oh so many ways. It reminds me of (a thinly-disguised version of) the male chauvinist self-pity of guys who whine about supposed "misandry" in My Little Pony.
Oh, and to the OP, yes the article is completely full of it. In oh so many ways. It reminds me of (a thinly-disguised version of) the male chauvinist self-pity of guys who whine about supposed "misandry" in My Little Pony.
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I want more women. More interesting, main character women.
The pendulum will not have swung its finest until we have to apply a Bechdel test for the men!
The pendulum will not have swung its finest until we have to apply a Bechdel test for the men!
@Kestra
I got the sense that part of the reason for the extent of the vitriol in response to various immature comments made in the thread was that said comments hit the 'Men are troglodytes' trigger.
I agree we should have equal amounts of male and female heroes in film, but I also think that Hollywood's only tool for making women strong is to just masculinize their personality while making sure to still keep them sexy. I'd like to see more strong females who don't clearly spend hours on their hair and aren't necessarily physically attractive, and do more to prove their strength than just acrobatic martial arts.
I think a great example of a strong female in film is the old woman in Night of the Hunter.
I got the sense that part of the reason for the extent of the vitriol in response to various immature comments made in the thread was that said comments hit the 'Men are troglodytes' trigger.
I agree we should have equal amounts of male and female heroes in film, but I also think that Hollywood's only tool for making women strong is to just masculinize their personality while making sure to still keep them sexy. I'd like to see more strong females who don't clearly spend hours on their hair and aren't necessarily physically attractive, and do more to prove their strength than just acrobatic martial arts.
I think a great example of a strong female in film is the old woman in Night of the Hunter.
No.
Ellen Ripley is a great example of a female action hero who has to take neither of those roads. She hasn't had her personality "masculinized" (whatever that means; but whatever it means, no), and while I find her attractive, she isn't overly sexualized either.
The secret ingredient to Ellen Ripley is that she's a plausible human being.
True, but for Aliens; not for Alien.
Have to admit Panthosa does have something of a point, though; Ripley is a great character but the "strong female character" is far more often boringly-done and pursued at the expense of the genuinely well-written and interesting female character. As Sophia MacDougall points out in an article that should be must-read on the subject of female heroes.