giant squids the next dominant lifeform?
- Thread starter Sketcher
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Absolutely not, the Atheist Sea Otters would take over. Everyone knows that.
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I think that your teacher has seen The Future is Wild too many times.
I'd actually give the octopus a fair shake at it should our time come to an end. They seem to have rudimentary communication via color change, dexterous limbs, and have been proven to learn through observation.
PBS or Discovery TV once showed that if you put an octopus that couldn't open a jar to get to a crab inside within sight of one that could and let it do its thing for a while, the unlearned one would pick up the trick.
During a dive on a submerged bridge span off Panama City, my buddy and I encountered a pair of octopus... at least it looked like 2 back in there in the hole under the span. My buddy walked his fingers up to the hole holding one of the open shells laying outside the lair, presumably from a precvous meal.
The octopus rolled a single tentacle out and pushed his hand away.
My buddy did it again.
Again, a single tentacle out to push him away.
He did it again.
This time, two tentacles... perhaps for emphasis? Dunno.
We were amazed, and left well enough alone.
PBS or Discovery TV once showed that if you put an octopus that couldn't open a jar to get to a crab inside within sight of one that could and let it do its thing for a while, the unlearned one would pick up the trick.
During a dive on a submerged bridge span off Panama City, my buddy and I encountered a pair of octopus... at least it looked like 2 back in there in the hole under the span. My buddy walked his fingers up to the hole holding one of the open shells laying outside the lair, presumably from a precvous meal.
The octopus rolled a single tentacle out and pushed his hand away.
My buddy did it again.
Again, a single tentacle out to push him away.
He did it again.
This time, two tentacles... perhaps for emphasis? Dunno.
We were amazed, and left well enough alone.
Perhaps he is instead referring to the fact that the stars will inevitably align to allow Great Cthulhu to awaken and rise from his sunken city of R'lyeh to reclaim his dominion over this world.
I'd say they definitely have a fair shot and they're probably more likely than dolphins, simply because they have the ability to interact more substantially with their environment. Of course, a good many of the apes are probably more likely, but where's the variety in that? What it really depends on, in the long run, is whether or not future environmental pressures on squids favor increased intelligence. Intelligence isn't necessarily something all creatures are striving towards, there has to be a real advantage to it that outweighs the rather considerable costs.
By the way, apparently some squids (and all octopi) have just been found to be venomous. So, yeah. They've got that going for them now, too.
By the way, apparently some squids (and all octopi) have just been found to be venomous. So, yeah. They've got that going for them now, too.
Everyone knows it will be the ants... That's why god made them in his own image.
Compared with a lot of animals, humans are quite feeble creatures. The reason humanity is dominant is due to cooperation I think, that's more important than technological innovation.
Compared with a lot of animals, humans are quite feeble creatures. The reason humanity is dominant is due to cooperation I think, that's more important than technological innovation.
^OH that can't be REAL! (TREE OCTOPI?)
Say it ain't so Joe.
The mountain walrus definitely exists in a symbiotic relationship with the egg men, coo-coo cachoo.
Well, OK if they get the hell out of the water and grow opposable thumbs.
Iirc, I read in some places that octopi have even demonstrated observational learning and abstract thought, able to open cages after seeing humans do it and solving mazes based on viewing other octopi. Cuttlefish appear to have the rudiments of a language based on their color-changing abilities.
On the minus side, from what I understand cephalopods don't raise their young, and this absolutely forestalls even a crude civilization. It's hard to say how smart cephalopods could be if they were able to transmit knowledge between generations. A great amount of any particular human's useful knowledge is received knowledge.
And, as others have mentioned, presumably technology as we know it is impossible underwater. I wonder, however, if this would prevent science and mathematics from developing--mathematics, particularly, don't require special technology to operate, other than language itself.
Anyway, I no longer eat calamari or octopus. Even with a lowball estimate of their intelligence and sapience, you might as well be eating a dog...
"plus a squid's brain surrounds it's esophagus, Choke on one pretzel and it's IQ would drop several points".
...Makes sense. It happened to our latest President Bush.
...Makes sense. It happened to our latest President Bush.
I realize now I missed like a page of the thread and basically recapitulated the point. Oops.
However, I wonder why octopi (on evolutionary timescales of course) would need humans to disappear before developing further? We don't really occupy the same ecological niche. Is there an overhunting problem with octopi?
However, I wonder why octopi (on evolutionary timescales of course) would need humans to disappear before developing further? We don't really occupy the same ecological niche. Is there an overhunting problem with octopi?
^I think it has to do with the time it would take them to adapt to that degree is longer than the time we're likely to be still around, or still around in our current form. Unless of course the genome goes completely stagnant and dead-ends, either way we won't be around forever.
Plus of course we are having something of a detrimental effect of the eco-system just be hanging around, doing what we do so that's bound to keep any serious competition down for a good long while...unless of course we manage to stimulate some species into some alarmingly effective adaption, though I don't think acrobatic squid falls into that category.
Plus of course we are having something of a detrimental effect of the eco-system just be hanging around, doing what we do so that's bound to keep any serious competition down for a good long while...unless of course we manage to stimulate some species into some alarmingly effective adaption, though I don't think acrobatic squid falls into that category.
Glad I wasn't drinking when I read that, or it'd have been spit-take central!Or perhaps some sort of beaver-squid hybrid.
All hail the Squeaver!
Even better, Spiff!
(Anyone want to try and photoshop that?)
How's this?
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