Germany lifts Doom sales ban after 17 years

[jmc247]

Actually, it's not. It's also ok to show it in movies and books in general if it's not an endorsement. So, it should be ok in video games, too, unless you get to play the Nazis.

I heard from a German friend that Afrika Corps vs Desert Rats where you get to play as either side in the war is allowed for sale in Germany and a quick online search confirms that. Though they have different covers and slightly different names for the UK version and the German versions.

 

[Count Zero]

Well, that sort of emphasises the point I was trying to make. I would have thought that it would be rather controversial if you could play the Nazis in a game and I could understand why it might get banned then. But since the law gets applied inconsistently, as I said above, this apparently got a pass while Wolfenstein 3D didn't, even though there the player was fighting against the Nazis.
Also, if you manage to get a rating the BPjM doesn't have any authority to do anything about it.

I'm not familiar with that game. Maybe there aren't any svastikas in it? I suppose just getting to play the Wehrmacht isn't as controversial.

 

[jmc247]

Well, that sort of emphasises the point I was trying to make. I would have thought that it would be rather controversial if you could play the Nazis in a game and I could understand why it might get banned then. But since the law gets applied inconsistently, as I said above, this apparently got a pass while Wolfenstein 3D didn't, even though there the player was fighting against the Nazis.
Also, if you manage to get a rating the BPjM doesn't have any authority to do anything about it.

I'm not familiar with that game. Maybe there aren't any svastikas in it? I suppose just getting to play the Wehrmacht isn't as controversial.

I don't know if they say replaced the center of the palm tree with the Iron Cross for the German version as they have done before.

But, I think you are onto something in regards to the potental aspects of controversy. The aspects of the war that to this day people are angry about; like Einsatzgruppen units going around killing innocent people, Jewish and other groups of POWs being killed, etc certainly weren't allowed by Rommel to happen in Africa.

Given they also allow Theatre of War 2: Africa 1943 to be sold in Germany which allows you to play as either the Desert Rats, the U.S. Army, or the Afrika Corps that is best explanation I have for it.

 

[Count Zero]

I should have been more clearer, I guess. The Wehrmacht isn't considered an anti-constitutional organisation. As a matter of fact, most of its symbols (like the Prussian cross) were in use by the military before 1933 and are still in use today. The airforce dress uniform of today looks almost exactly like the one used then, minus the funny looking trousers, of course.
Therefore, a video game allowing you to play in the role of the Wehrmacht, while possibly in bad taste, shouldn't pose any legal problems per se. Only if they wore visible svastikas, I'd say.
I was thinking more along the lines of units wearing svastika armbands like the black-uniformed SS and the SA. That would probably be a non-starter.

 

[Owain Taggart]

In terms of the Indiana Jones game, shouldn't that be allowed since it's in historical context? Or is it an example of inconsistency?

 

[Count Zero]

I think it was probably caution on the side of the game producers.

 

[jmc247]

I should have been more clearer, I guess. The Wehrmacht isn't considered an anti-constitutional organisation. As a matter of fact, most of its symbols (like the Prussian cross) were in use by the military before 1933 and are still in use today. The airforce dress uniform of today looks almost exactly like the one used then, minus the funny looking trousers, of course.
Therefore, a video game allowing you to play in the role of the Wehrmacht, while possibly in bad taste, shouldn't pose any legal problems per se. Only if they wore visible svastikas, I'd say.
I was thinking more along the lines of units wearing svastika armbands like the black-uniformed SS and the SA. That would probably be a non-starter.

That makes sense from a legal prospective. The Wehrmacht in English I believe translates to Defense Forces and the current German Army is the Bundeswehr which I believe in English is translates to the Federal Defense Forces. Even the Bundeswehr metals like their Iron Cross below isn't too different then the Wehrmacht's Iron Cross.

I guess legally to meet the requirements of German law the only thing they would have to screen out or alter is the tiny swastikas the Nazi Party had placed underneath the eagles in the caps for high ranking officers and on some of the helmets for the drafted and low level enlisted.

 

[Count Zero]

Well, actually there was quite a lot of controversial discussion when the idea of a new Iron Cross came up, for obvious reasons. It was created only a few years ago.
Wehrmacht is a term tainted by the Nazis because the military was renamed to this in 1935. Before, it was the Reichswehr and the Bundeswehr term is an expression of the continuation from that, exchanging Reichs with Bund because the country's name had changed from Deutsches Reich to Bundesrepublik Deutschland. In any case, I wouldn't translate Wehrmacht as Defense Force. It does sound a bit more menacingly in German than that.

 

[jmc247]

Well, actually there was quite a lot of controversial discussion when the idea of a new Iron Cross came up, for obvious reasons. It was created only a few years ago.
Wehrmacht is a term tainted by the Nazis because the military was renamed to this in 1935. Before, it was the Reichswehr and the Bundeswehr term is an expression of the continuation from that, exchanging Reichs with Bund because the country's name had changed from Deutsches Reich to Bundesrepublik Deutschland. In any case, I wouldn't translate Wehrmacht as Defense Force. It does sound a bit more menacingly in German than that.

If I recall it was former Wehrmacht general Hosso von Manteuffel who came up with the name Bundeswehr for Germany's new army and it was developed mainly in collaboration between US, UK, and German generals from the second World War like Von Manstein, Manteuffel and many others.

The Wehrmacht officers, generals and Field Marshal's that were the least willing to compromise their values were mostly killed off or committed suicide after July 20th 1944.

If Africa proved anything its that the difference between the German Army fighting a clean war or a dirty war was high level officers having the balls to stand up to the Nazi leadership when they issued illegal orders or not.

 

[Davros]

I think it's funny that the first time I played Wolfenstein 3D was in Bonn in 1992.