Generations Redux

[siskokid888]

I watched the begining of Trek Generations last night, after not having seen it in a while. I was struck by how good the beginning was - the incident on the Enterprise B. The characterizations are good - Kirk may be the most Kirk-like of any of the films - a decisive man of action, and hankering for that center seat. The interplay between Kirk, Scotty and Chekov is good. (and yea, I know it was originally supposed to be Spock and McCoy, but they still play it well.) John Ruck's Harriman is properly intimidated by having Kirk on board, and plays the "company man" well. The special effects were pretty neat too. It made me think that maybe the better movie would have involved continuing this story in some way, maybe running parallel with a TNG story, involving something to do with Kirk's apparent demise and how it effected both crews and storylines. Would this have been possible? Would it have been better then the plot hole filled story we were left with? Opinions?

 

[Kryton]

That would be Alan Ruck.

 

[siskokid888]

^Right. Confused his character's name with his name. A tribute to how well he played it.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I read a "fan fiction" revision of this movie online once. It was pretty damn good. I forget how it went though. Has anyone seen this?

 

[Alrik]

First off, I am a huge TOS and TNG fan. But to be honest, Generations is almost unwatchable for me. IMHO it could stand a massive 'Redux'.

The opening is fine, but I never saw the need to kill off Picard's family. His desire for a family of his own could have been just as effective in the Nexus with them still alive.

The Emotion Chip sub plot is a turn off for me as well. To a casual fan or a non-trek fan seeing this movie, Data would have looked like and absolute idiot. I thought it was pretty pointless, besides the fact that it allowed Spiner a little more room to 'act'......oh and sing that big hit "Life Forms".

Don't even get me started on Kirk's death. That entire chain of events was the most rediculous in all of Star Trek. If he HAD to die, it should have been as the hero.....saving the B. To think that Picard would choose to leave the Nexus just moments before he entered it, but this time with help completely discredits the tacticion they spent 7 years building him up to be. Your telling me that a man of his inteligence wouldn't have opted to leave the Nexus to be set in the hallway outside of 10 Forward just before he meets Soran for the first time?

Then there is destroying the D. I understand that B&B wanted a 'kewler' ship for the movies but come on. At least in TSFS the loss of the Enterprise had a deep purpose. The loss of the D was more senseless than the death of Tasha. No deep purpose behind it, just showing that we can do it because "we can". D'oh.

The timing on this couldn't be better. Over the last couple of weeks I have been going through the movies one by one and watching about an hours worth of each while I'm winding down for bed. I got to Generations and got the first half watched, but the next night when I was to watch the rest I just couldn't bring myself to turn it on. It is the only movie in the entire franchise that doesn't leave me with a possitive feeling at the end.

 

[siskokid888]

^Yea, your feelings kind of fit in with my point. Do you think they could have done an effective parallel stories type of film, based around Kirk's demise on the Ent B?

 

[Alrik]

^
Let me give it some thought. The short answer is most likely. To be blunt, most anything would have been better than what we got.

 

[cardinal biggles]

The interplay between the characters was fun, but there were a couple of moments where Braga & Moore forgot which generation they were writing for. Having to listen to Scotty spit out technobabble about "phasing in and out of our space-time continuum" and remodulating the deflector shield was painful to hear. Not that they didn't ever use technobabble on TOS, but this was decidedly TNG-flavored Technobabble (tastes great! less filling!).

 

[CobraCommander]

Generations left much to be desired. The 23rd century beginning was great and felt like a tight motion picture. The F/X were spectacular and Kirk went out in a blaze of glory. A man of his chacter deserved to remain immortal in the Nexus much the same way Sisko became one with the Prophets at the end of DS9. In terms of a redo, I would have redone the scene where Kirk plunged to his doom on Veridian III. I would have had Picard see what had happened and done nothing so that Kirk and himself would be sucked back into the Nexus. As a result, they would both be alive and able to strike back at Soran with a new plan. But realistically, why couldn't the Ent-D be able to track human life signs on Veridian III and have done something instead of getting blasted by a bird of prey?

 

[siskokid888]

^Yea, the plot holes are just atrocious. It's too bad the film couldn't live up to the promise of its first 10 or so minutes.

 

[Lightinspire]

I read a "fan fiction" revision of this movie online once. It was pretty damn good. I forget how it went though. Has anyone seen this?

I don't know if it is the same one I read years ago but the one I read was that it started off with Kirk's adventure with Picard was a holodeck adventure and he was ecstatic when he came out..he was in there while waiting for his assignment...it was great.

 

[Lightinspire]

Seems like he should have died saving the Enterprise B and that should have been at the end, not at the beginning..Yesterday's Enterprise would have been a good Generations movie.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It made me think that maybe the better movie would have involved continuing this story in some way, maybe running parallel with a TNG story, involving something to do with Kirk's apparent demise and how it effected both crews and storylines. Would this have been possible? Would it have been better then the plot hole filled story we were left with? Opinions?

I worked out a number of years an alternate ending along those lines.

Instead of Kirk and Picard going back to Veridian III, they chose to go back to the Enteprise-B.

The reason for that? Soran's intention wasn't just to get himself into the Nexus, but all of the El-Aurians who were ripped away from it by Scotty's fast work with the transporter. And to do that, Soran was himself going back to the Enterprise-B.

Which meant that Kirk and Picard going back only as far as Veridian III wasn't going to work.

Basically, Kirk dies in my version as well, but he dies on the Enterprise, saving the ship once more.

It's funny to me that Generations is a film where you can choose pretty much any point of the film and come up with an alternate plotline that's either better than what we got on screen or makes more sense, because there are so many dangling points. Imagine what might've happened if the Romulan bit had gone somewhere. Or if more was done to integrate the prologue into the main plot of the film. It's a story full of missed opportunities.

 

[cynical dreamer]

I'm a fan of this film but 2 things that really worked for me would be the beginning as mentioned by the thread starter. The other is the fight between the bird of prey and the Enterprise and the ensuing crash in to the planet (i hope at this point I'm not spoiling it for anybody ). Both are great, taut sequences that scream "this is not the tv show anymore this is a movie".

I'm lukewarm on the rest though.

 

[trekkerguy]

That would be Alan Ruck.

"Rabbit is good, Rabbit is wise!"

 

[CobraCommander]

I also thought about having Kirk or Picard going back to the Ent-B to beam Soran back into the Nexus. The problem with that is that it isn't possible. I don't see how one can change the past by using the knowledge of the offending timeline. They would simply cross cancel because after the timeline is altered, the time traveler wouldn't know that they need to go back in time to alter the timeline and the former offending timeline would remain. ST IV is an exception since Kirk went into the past to change his present. The whole time shifting of the Nexus didn't make sense. Picard could have saved his ship, Kirk, his brother and nephew, and even Tasha Yar if he wanted to.

 

[ClayinCA]

First off, I am a huge TOS and TNG fan. But to be honest, Generations is almost unwatchable for me. IMHO it could stand a massive 'Redux'.

The opening is fine, but I never saw the need to kill off Picard's family. His desire for a family of his own could have been just as effective in the Nexus with them still alive.

The Emotion Chip sub plot is a turn off for me as well. To a casual fan or a non-trek fan seeing this movie, Data would have looked like and absolute idiot. I thought it was pretty pointless, besides the fact that it allowed Spiner a little more room to 'act'......oh and sing that big hit "Life Forms".

Don't even get me started on Kirk's death. That entire chain of events was the most rediculous in all of Star Trek. If he HAD to die, it should have been as the hero.....saving the B. To think that Picard would choose to leave the Nexus just moments before he entered it, but this time with help completely discredits the tacticion they spent 7 years building him up to be. Your telling me that a man of his inteligence wouldn't have opted to leave the Nexus to be set in the hallway outside of 10 Forward just before he meets Soran for the first time?

Then there is destroying the D. I understand that B&B wanted a 'kewler' ship for the movies but come on. At least in TSFS the loss of the Enterprise had a deep purpose. The loss of the D was more senseless than the death of Tasha. No deep purpose behind it, just showing that we can do it because "we can". D'oh.

The timing on this couldn't be better. Over the last couple of weeks I have been going through the movies one by one and watching about an hours worth of each while I'm winding down for bed. I got to Generations and got the first half watched, but the next night when I was to watch the rest I just couldn't bring myself to turn it on. It is the only movie in the entire franchise that doesn't leave me with a possitive feeling at the end.

You've summed up more or less my exact feelings about this misfire of a movie.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I read a "fan fiction" revision of this movie online once. It was pretty damn good. I forget how it went though. Has anyone seen this?

I don't know if it is the same one I read years ago but the one I read was that it started off with Kirk's adventure with Picard was a holodeck adventure and he was ecstatic when he came out..he was in there while waiting for his assignment...it was great.

I don't supose you would have the name of it would you.

 

[Lightinspire]

Sorry but no I don't, it was too long ago for my brain to recall..

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Sorry but no I don't, it was too long ago for my brain to recall..

That sucks.