Generations: Klingon Battle Tactics

[Bry_Sinclair]

LURSA: Target their bridge.
B'ETOR: Full disruptors.
KLINGON: We are cloaking!
B'ETOR: What?
KLINGON: Our shields are down!
Soon followed by a single torpedo heading straight into the BoP and destroying it instantly.

The Duras Sisters never struck me as stupid or lacking experience--they made a semi-successful play for control of the entire Empire after all. So why didn't one of them order an immediate course correction as soon as the ship started to cloak, so they weren't on the same trajectory as the solitary torpedo.

They could've swung around and continued their attack from another angle, even if the E-D had adjusted their shield frequency, they would always get the new modulation from the tap in Geordi's VISOR, so its not like time was against them.

 

[Franklin]

There was only a two second interval between cloaking and the shields dropping. They were taken totally by surprise and simply didn't have time to figure out what was going on and react to it.

 

[dub]

There was only a two second interval between cloaking and the shields dropping. They were taken totally by surprise and simply didn't have time to figure out what was going on and react to it.

Actually, I went back and looked (youtube is awesome)...and believe it or not, there was a 10 second interval between the time the torpedo exited the Enterprise to the time it hit the bird of prey. BUT this issue is microscopic compared to some of the more glaring plot holes in Generations! Still, I personally enjoyed the film.

 

[Mytran]

Or maybe there was less time to react than we saw? Time moving at different speeds in movie time and real time goes back to TWOK, and even TOS experienced this occasionally!

 

[dub]

Does canon account for dramatic effect?

 

[Hypaspist]

Given that we have seen these weapons used successfully at warp speed, I'd say that any time you see a photon torpedo it's for dramatic effect. It's the same thing with them not taking the sound out of space battles.
A lot of times what appears onscreen and what the story calls for are two different things

 

[Avro Arrow]

The Duras Sisters never struck me as stupid or lacking experience--they made a semi-successful play for control of the entire Empire after all. So why didn't one of them order an immediate course correction as soon as the ship started to cloak, so they weren't on the same trajectory as the solitary torpedo.

Why didn't either of them do *anything*? After "what?", neither of them say a single world, or attempt anything at all. Everyone just stares at the viewscreen in shock. Ordering evasive maneuvers wouldn't have been out of line!

But it had to be this way, because plot.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

But it had to be this way, because plot.

Damn plot getting in the way common sense!

 

[Bender Bending Rodríguez]

What's the helmsman doing while this is all going down? If it was me...flying around a bird of prey during battle I'd be on the ball for any incoming projectiles and taking evasive action.

Unless they don't do anything unless the captain says so...then why isn't the captain driving the ship?

Anyway I say dramatic effect!

 

[Lance]

As much as I love the 1701-D -- and I genuinely do love her -- the fact of the matter is the Trek producers were really, really lame at showing her in battle. She seemed particularly susceptible to Klingon ships. On no less than three occasions in the show's run, we see her being completely gimped by Klingon ships that she should easily have been able to wipe the floor with (and on one of those occasions, the Klingon ships were being piloted by Ferengi, of all things!).

I guess the plus side of GENS is that, at least they do take the enemy down with them.

 

[Dream]

Both the Enterprise crew and Klingon crew were written as morons in this space battle. This is why I hate it.

Also the stupid decision to reuse the BOP exploding scene from TUC. Use your damn movie budget!

 

[T'Girl]

Or maybe there was less time to react than we saw? Time moving at different speeds in movie time ...

Some of the things we saw might have been happening simultaneously on the Enterprise bridge and the BOP bridge.

Lursa: "Target their bridge."
B'etor: "Full disruptors."

At this point Riker on the Enterprise says "Fire."

Tactical: We are cloaking."
B'etor: "What?"
Tactical: Our shields are down."

The torpedo is launched. Thing really slow down at this point.

Lursa stands and looks at the screen for two or three seconds, turn for a brief glimpse of her sister and the BOP is hit.

The Klingon at the helm might have initiated a maneuver[, but the torpedo was too quick, total flight time three seconds.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PQ36c9Uo6A[/yt]

 

[Sistrin]

Given Photon Torpedoes would have to be equipped with sophisticated tracking devices once one locked on there may not have been enough time for an evasive maneuver to matter. But I agree the Sisters of B'etor just looking at each other was a bit...stupid.

 

[EnriqueH]

What dub said.

There are so many glaring plot holes and this just adds to the list. Nitpicking Generations is a hobby of mine on message boards and in conversations, and this one never occured to me.

What pisses me off more than anything is that we have Klingons as villains in this movie, when the previous movie shows the Federation establishing peace with the Klingons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were renegade Klingons and they were Klingon babes at that, but still. We should've had Romulans or something.

The other thing that ticks me off is that the Enterprise-D got taken down by a crappy old Bird of Prey. I haven't seen the movie in years, but I thought I remembered a line that says that the Klingon ship was old.

 

[Avro Arrow]

In both "Rascals" and Generations, the Enterprise gets pretty soundly defeated by opponents using rather outdated Birds of Prey. The other commonality? Riker was in command both times. Hmm....

 

[Lance]

In both "Rascals" and Generations, the Enterprise gets pretty soundly defeated by opponents using rather outdated Birds of Prey. The other commonality? Riker was in command both times. Hmm....

Yeah, that *is* the other common factor.

I don't know if it was the deliberate reason why the battle is so lame, but the early versions of GENS had it implied that Lursa and B'etor survived (I think the Klingon ship was supposed to crash land on the planet with the Enterprise, and they were going to encounter the D's crew on the surface). So maybe that accounts for the way the battle goes down: it wasn't supposed to be a battle to the death.

But then, presumably, somebody told Rick Berman that if they destroyed the Klingon ship instead of simply dismantling it, then he'd be able to save 25c in opticals by reusing the BOP shot from STVI to show it being blown up. Hurrah for accounting!

 

[inflatabledalek]

What's interesting is that even at the point of filming the bridge scenes they clearly weren't expecting the defeat of the Bird of Prey to be stock footage as Riker asks for multiple torpedoes rather than the one in the Undiscovered Country clip. The fact they didn't just redub that line in post makes it seem as Worf struggles to count above one.

 

[EnriqueH]

OMG, don't get me started on the BOP exploding technique!

I know they reused stuff in TWOK, but somehow it worked a little better there than it did in GENS.

 

[Bender Bending Rodríguez]

Oh we should get started on it actually! That's why there's a forum...for us to air our grievances amongst like minded people!

 

[Hober Mallow]

But it had to be this way, because plot.

Well, that and they had that great BoP explosion to recycle from TUC.