I agree with your agreement.
Generations is so good.
- Thread starter Savoy 1984
- Start date
I agree with your agreement.
I generally liked Generations. Favorite parts: Scotty and Checkov's reactions to the loss of Kirk and the pull away. Finally getting rid of the ugly Ent-D (which made room for the much better Ent-E.)
Least favorite part: Kirk's death, was not as it should have been. He should have died on the Bridge of the Enterprise fighting all the way.
Least favorite part: Kirk's death, was not as it should have been. He should have died on the Bridge of the Enterprise fighting all the way.
Where'd you read this? I've never heard of it. That's pretty funny, I always loved the design of the Excelsior.
It's the way it was. People were so in love with the Enterprise/Connie design and they hated the Excelsior design and hated the thought of it becoming the new Enterprise. So TPTB abandoned the idea of using it in the next movie and instead gave them another Connie.
QFT.
I never much liked the Excelsior when I first saw it. It was neat to see another ship but it was not very good.
One would think the Excelsior had the cards stacked against her. After all, the casting sheet had apparently read "Big, menacing, almost villainy - will upstage the main hero and act pompous and arrogant all around".
The design fills that role commendably.
OTOH, the redesign for the movie we're discussing here is IMHO wonderful! Those side flanges evoke a WWI or earlier feel (while also serving as an intermediate step towards the flanges of the E-D), the new nacelle endcaps look a bit like medieval helmets, and the blues and greens on the bridge make the thing look quite regal overall. I'm not sure whether I like the big boxes on the saucer, but I can live with them.
Timo Saloniemi
The design fills that role commendably.
OTOH, the redesign for the movie we're discussing here is IMHO wonderful! Those side flanges evoke a WWI or earlier feel (while also serving as an intermediate step towards the flanges of the E-D), the new nacelle endcaps look a bit like medieval helmets, and the blues and greens on the bridge make the thing look quite regal overall. I'm not sure whether I like the big boxes on the saucer, but I can live with them.
Timo Saloniemi
I remember seeing this in 94 on the big screen and was pretty impressed with it overall, the mood was great thru out, the lighting as someone mentioned was excellent and so was the score although I missed the TV theme as the main title, but it held up nicely and worked once I got used to it. The parts I thought let it down were the Klingons maybe a little too comical but I guess they served their purpose in the plot. I pretty much hated every other next gen film after that.
First contact was a hugeeeee let down..was expecting an awesome borg/federation battle and got about 10 seconds of nothing. Slow plodding pace (the deflector dish battle was god awfully boring) and weird character behavior. Subsequent films got even worse Nemesis was abysmal..so in short Generations was probably the best we got out of the next gen movies!
First contact was a hugeeeee let down..was expecting an awesome borg/federation battle and got about 10 seconds of nothing. Slow plodding pace (the deflector dish battle was god awfully boring) and weird character behavior. Subsequent films got even worse Nemesis was abysmal..so in short Generations was probably the best we got out of the next gen movies!
I liked GEN, FC was AWESOME! INS was...okay...
In the case GEN, we were seeing sets that we'd just watched on TV for seven years suddenly being lit very differently, for no apparent in-story reason. In TMP, they were brand-new sets, we had no reason to expect them to be lit any differently.
Guys really.
People whinging about Kirks death have always annoyed me, why does it follow that because you've had a heroic life you have to get a heroic death?
Do you know the amount of charismatic leaders and legendary generals that were murderd, or died old men in their beds, or of cancer?
Why do they have to go out in a blaze of glory? THe amount of amazing things that happened to Kirk in his life was stretching the limits of credibility as it was, why did he have to have some super amazing death?
I've heard some say he should not have died at all I mean come on ffsake he was human after all.
People whinging about Kirks death have always annoyed me, why does it follow that because you've had a heroic life you have to get a heroic death?
Do you know the amount of charismatic leaders and legendary generals that were murderd, or died old men in their beds, or of cancer?
Why do they have to go out in a blaze of glory? THe amount of amazing things that happened to Kirk in his life was stretching the limits of credibility as it was, why did he have to have some super amazing death?
I've heard some say he should not have died at all I mean come on ffsake he was human after all.
Not to mention a human in a high-risk group. A desk job after an active career; a backlog of veneric diseases waiting to manifest themselves; a predilection towards alcohol, omelettes and similar risk nutrition. Prone to depression, too, and all too willing to play with wild horses, bladed weapons and high falls. I doubt the man had a long future ahead of himself no matter what...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
That the rocks and scaffolding survive (for a few minutes at least!) had never struck me before; thinking it through, it's a pity they didn't have the scaffolding (an artificial construction, like the ships) get wrecked while the rocks (the result of natural processes) survive.
That way, you could argue that the Nexus was damaging to constructed items - the product of deliberate intelligent effort - which would almost make sense, in a stretching SF-ish way, when dealing with what must be some sort of mind-related phenomenon.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Well, the idea of bright light from outside playing over the interior is a reasonable one, so that part of it doesn't violate what went before, it just kinda falls under the heading of 'the way we would've done it if we could afford to' which is how they justified the changes to the bridge between AGT and GEN.
With TMP, or with any room, you have no justification for light coming from the floor, because it interferes with your ability to look down and read clipboards or console readouts. The light is supposed to be above and/or behind to illuminate, not underneath.
I think people overstate this lighting from below thing in TMP. The only places it's seen in around the inner ring of the bridge, in the corridors, and in the rec dec (which also has overhead lights). Of these, only the corridors are obviously only lit in this fashion. The other sets are not lit this fashion.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
No, it is present in plenty other spots, just not necessarily always motivated by in-frame source lights. Thing to keep in mind is that regardless of the lights VISIBLE in the scene, there is a lot off-camera augmenting the look, and the conscious deliberate choice on the part of the production designer was to make things look different by lighting predominantly from beneath, and the cinematographer for some crazy reason didn't fight him on this (and apparently neither did the director, who replaced Joe Jennings with this guy, a big movie studio vet who didn't really know from space or science fiction.)
It's a dubious choice for any number of reasons; the light from below gives a sinister cast, makes women look awful, and in the case of the TOS cast, does not put them in the favorable light they needed. A look at the 1980 calendar shows a close Kirk/McCoy prewormhole view that I remember captures perfectly how horrible the soft side and below fill light hits those middleaged faces. And as previously stated, it doesn't make sense in terms of reading unless you are looking to see graffitti on the bridge overhead.
The movie was intended for even more lit-from-below, since the hex shapes they walk on to vger were originally clear and would glow when stepped on. But according to Mike Minor, the cinematographer was scared of the look and had them painted grey (like damned near everything else in the movie.) I could see the vger stuff being that way, since that is an alien environment (and it would tie in with the vger hemisphere, which is predominantly lit from below as well.) But the Enterprise stuff ... just looks and feels wrong to me.
Antonia Shot on the hill...
Does anyone know where they got that terrible shot of Antonia on the horse?
On a recent viewing of Generations in HD, that shot is horribly inconsistent with the rest of the movie.
It clearly looks like some B-Roll from the likes of "Little House on the Prairie"
It's very soft/out of focus and is filthy. It looks as though it was cleaned at one time and the cleaner was not able to properly dry/evaporate. In HD it almost takes you out of the movie its so bad.
I noticed in the end credits that there was no listing for the character of Antonia.
Does anyone know where they got that terrible shot of Antonia on the horse?
On a recent viewing of Generations in HD, that shot is horribly inconsistent with the rest of the movie.
It clearly looks like some B-Roll from the likes of "Little House on the Prairie"
It's very soft/out of focus and is filthy. It looks as though it was cleaned at one time and the cleaner was not able to properly dry/evaporate. In HD it almost takes you out of the movie its so bad.
I noticed in the end credits that there was no listing for the character of Antonia.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Re: Antonia Shot on the hill...
I remember it being fuzzy, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as the shots of Scotty hovering in midair in TVH ... those things were so grainy it was like they pulled them from an old 16mm workprint.
I remember it being fuzzy, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as the shots of Scotty hovering in midair in TVH ... those things were so grainy it was like they pulled them from an old 16mm workprint.
Really? I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but you're going to have to point me to some specific images and not one isolated scene in the film.
For instance, I *did* look, and while I see a lot of cross-lighting, I see virtually nothing from below, not even fill.
Bridge
Bridge
Engine room
Engine Room
Bridge after wormhole
Kirk's Quarters
Lounge
Bridge later
Rec Deck
Airlock
Sickbay
Bridge near end
Bridge at end
You know where I see lighting from below? The corridors, and in the "microwave wok" that is the V'ger set.
Kindly point me to examples of this prevalent underlight.
