GENERATIONS had great quotes

[RobertScorpio]

I think Generations was the best TNG movie. And I think one of the main reasons is the theme of time, and how we live our lives with it. And the lines in that movie were awesome. The first meeting between Picard/Soran in 10 forward...and the scene between Picard/Soran when Picard tries to talk Soran out of it...

The movie is not perfect. But to me it gets better with time. FC's introduction of the Queen was a very bad idea. It was aimed at horny star trek fans. But by putting a 'voice' on the Borg, it ruined what could have been the greatest Trek enemy of all time...

Generation's theme about how to live our lives was far more interesting to me than a re-creation of Star Trek continuity...

And as Kirk said "It was...fun"

 

[James Bond]

I think the reason so many hate GEN is because their hero Kirk falls off a bridge and dies.

 

[cardinal biggles]

RobertScorpio said:
I think Generations was the best TNG movie. And I think one of the main reasons is the theme of time, and how we live our lives with it. And the lines in that movie were awesome. The first meeting between Picard/Soran in 10 forward...and the scene between Picard/Soran when Picard tries to talk Soran out of it...

The movie is not perfect. But to me it gets better with time.

Not really. It has a few nice moments, and Malcolm McDowell's performance is underrated, but the film has way too many holes and out-of-character moments to ever make it great.

FC's introduction of the Queen was a very bad idea. It was aimed at horny star trek fans. But by putting a 'voice' on the Borg, it ruined what could have been the greatest Trek enemy of all time...

Generation's theme about how to live our lives was far more interesting to me than a re-creation of Star Trek continuity...

The introduction of the Borg Queen had less to do with rewriting canon and giving the fanboys material for their spank banks, and more with giving a "face" to a faceless enemy. Without the Queen, First Contact is a zombie movie set in space. And as a one-off character, I thought the Queen was great. It's when they started bringing her back again every time it was Sweeps Month on Voyager that she and the Borg both started to become tiresome.

And as Kirk said "It was...fun"

Occasionally.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

James Bond said:
I think the reason so many hate GEN is because their hero Kirk falls off a bridge and dies.

Speaking as a TOS/Kirk fan, I had no problem with the idea of killing Kirk in the movie. Its the execution--pardon the pun--of the idea that fell flat for me. But the manner of Kirk's death isn't the only thing about the film I have issue with. The plot has a few huge holes in it, most of them caused by the poorly defined Nexus. I mean, why couldn't Soran just fly a ship into it? That is how he first got there, isn't it? And the inclusion of the Duras Sisters was just gratuitous. Moore & Braga's DVD commentary is pretty honest about the film's failings and well as the studio requirements laid on them as script writers, which made it a doubly difficult story to write.

Having said that, I don't think the movie is nearly as bad as some make it out to be. I definitely don't "hate" it.

 

[egonbeeblebrox]

cardinal biggles said:
Without the Queen, First Contact is a zombie movie set in space.

And that would be a bad thing?

Of course, I have a soft spot for Zombie Movies, so I may be biased...

 

[Peach Wookiee]

A good quote from "Generations..." "Let me guess... Tuesday..."

 

[Data Holmes]

I agree. Generations was the only TNG film to really feel like a "TNG Trek" film and not an "Action film" painted in TNG colors. NEM was the most blatant AF in TNG skin. INS actually started to shift away from it and back toward the generations side of the spectrum.

FC is hard, it was an action film in trek clothing, and it made sacrifices to become that which hurt the borg, ie the queen.


Now, I do think Generations suffered from two very different and important points...

One, the inclusion of Kirk in the final was totally unnecessary. Having him on the Ent B, and having him die to save that ship, setting up the Soran story line was fine.

Two, is it came way too soon. The creative minds were sapped after the amazing final (which really should have been the story for Generations but thats another thread), Working on DS9, and starting up Voyager. It was too much at one time and overloaded the entire trek creative unit, and marked the shift toward AA (Action and Anomalies).

DS9 fell on to the war arcs. Though this series as a whole suffered far less than voyager, and i think that's a testament to it's writing/production team.

Voyager launched with very little adherence to it's original concepts, losing it's core writing/production team members, and latter going to the Borg and Anomalies buffet...

Ins went with stupid gag humor... ok, some of it was fun, but still, I'm trying to make a point here. Overall I think Frakes and Piller made a dang good attempt to swing Trek away from the AFiTC model to a trek film with action, but didn't quite get there.

NEM went pure action and I think left alot of trek in it's wake.

Enterprise had no clue what it was until mid to late third season, when they brought in new blood into the writing/production team... But sadly the damage was done, and no simple infusion was going to pull it out of the whole as far as corporate was concerned.

 

[Adagio]

The plot holes in Generations were enormous. This movie tried to do WAY too much in the time it was given. If it had an additional hour, such as each part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, there might have been enough time to address more of the story and fill some more plot holes.

I didn't mind that Kirk died. I liked it, how Kirk "died" on the Enterprise-B. If it was left with that, I would have been satisfied.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Adagio said:
I didn't mind that Kirk died. I liked it, how Kirk "died" on the Enterprise-B. If it was left with that, I would have been satisfied.

I agree. The opening sequence on the E-B is very strong, in my opinion. Shatner's performance is great & the idea of Kirk dying saving the Enterprise--even if its not *his* Enterprise--seemed very poetic. I think what lets me down about his death at the end of the movie is that it is much less satisfying in comparison.

 

[RoJoHen]

Now that I think about it, they should have made an entire movie based around the opening sequence of GEN. That opening really would have made a decent climax for another film.

 

[cardinal biggles]

^Maybe they could have hired Nick Meyer to write the script for Braga & Moore's story... all the TNG-style technobabble they have Doohan reciting damn near ruins it.

 

[T'Baio]

cardinal biggles said:
...and out-of-character moments to ever make it great.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this. Do you mean the TNG cast or TOS cast? If TNG cast, I find the following films have far more out of character moments than Generations. I actually find Generations is the best of them.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Mostly the TOS cast, although I understand that's largely because Scotty and Chekov's names were pasted on wherever it said "Spock" or "McCoy" in the script after Nimoy and Kelley expressed their lack of interest in participating.

Data annoyed the ever-loving crap out of me in this film. The emotions chip should never have been used in the first place, but its use here merely gave Spiner an excuse to overact.

 

[Nebusj]

EliyahuQeoni said:
I agree. The opening sequence on the E-B is very strong, in my opinion. Shatner's performance is great & the idea of Kirk dying saving the Enterprise--even if its not *his* Enterprise--seemed very poetic. I think what lets me down about his death at the end of the movie is that it is much less satisfying in comparison.

I think that would have fallen a bit short, if Kirk didn't re-emerge from the Nexus. It'd be a reasonable enough way for him to die, certainly; but I think it's a nice if plot-convenient touch that Kirk is put in the position of the Hero gone off to the distant-land from which he can return in times of greatest crisis. I don't know that they meant to give a suitable legendary hero-going-away resolution, but they did and that works. Or, well, it'd work better if the greatest-crisis didn't turn out to be an old guy from off of Tank Girl futzing with his Estes kit.

 

[Kegek]

RobertScorpio said:
And I think one of the main reasons is the theme of time, and how we live our lives with it.

This is certainly one of the best parts of the movie. It's the one real idea, lost in the film's checklist: Destroy Enterprise-D, use Klingons, kill Kirk, give Data emotions.

And I agree with T'Baio that GEN is certianly the most consistent outing as far as TNG characterisations are concerned. The only character who acts out of character is Data, and there's a subplot devoted to explaining why (while his reversion on the subsequent films did not make a great deal of sense).

I agree with cardinal biggles, though, that Scotty speaking technobabble is just... wrong.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

EliyahuQeoni said:

Adagio said:
I didn't mind that Kirk died. I liked it, how Kirk "died" on the Enterprise-B. If it was left with that, I would have been satisfied.

I agree. The opening sequence on the E-B is very strong, in my opinion. Shatner's performance is great & the idea of Kirk dying saving the Enterprise--even if its not *his* Enterprise--seemed very poetic. I think what lets me down about his death at the end of the movie is that it is much less satisfying in comparison.

Yeah, they tried to pull a Janet Leigh-Psycho bit like in TWOK with Spock but since the movie poster promised a meeting, it was hindered dramatically not to mention that the first "death" was better than the second "death" dramatically.

I remember seeing it in the theater and hearing some guys behind me say that they preferred him dying on the ship than on the planet. So did I.

GEN wasn't a perfect movie and had it's far share of problems, mainly, as Moore and Braga admit, coming off the heels of "All Good Things...." Both the writers and Stewart were exhausted and overworked, and it shows in the script and the latter's performance. If anything, GEN would've made a decent two-parter of the series. In fact, that's what it feels like. As a motion picture, however, it's mediocre.

 

[MadBaggins]

Good quote from Generations.

Worf: ROMULANS!

 

[RobertScorpio]

Actually I think the best part of the borg, as they were introduced in Qwho, was their Zombie like state. They were just an army of these, well, zombies that came after you. You could not talk to them, or negotiate. They are going to get you no matter how far you run.

Once the writers gave them a voice, it was all down hill from there. They just became another typical star trek villian who we can eventually call our friends.

Been there done that with the Klingons. But the borg? Bad move.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I don't think we can call most of the Borg our friends...

 

[syc]

EliyahuQeoni said:

James Bond said:
I think the reason so many hate GEN is because their hero Kirk falls off a bridge and dies.

Speaking as a TOS/Kirk fan, I had no problem with the idea of killing Kirk in the movie. Its the execution--pardon the pun--of the idea that fell flat for me.

^ Falling off a metal brige splaying eagle is pretty stupid, I heard that one of the possible death options was for Soran to shoot Kirk in the back with his little "side-ways" pistol... Am I the only one that thinks thats a hundred-times better then FALLING WHILE HOLDING ON FOR DEAR LIFE!? He's James Tiberius Kirk, he might as well have been wilhelm screaming.