Generations had a bigger budget than ST6, so why...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Beard of Sisko, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. SithHappens

    SithHappens Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Still wish there was a version where Picard got his request of Guinan granted and she was first fighting with Soran at the end.
     
  2. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    And tie it in as one of many events leading to "The Way of the Warrior". True, intra-franchise continuity does start to creep in and now having to hopscotch between tv shows and movies and a few novels plus those really esoteric comics does start to get a tad ridiculous, especially when the TOS flicks held their own surprisingly well but before I digress, but TNG starting the issue for it to meet its zenith in DS9 would make far more sense than the other way around (case in point, the misuse of Defiant in STFC, the ship designed to fight the Borg barely stood a chance, among other problems... )
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    1. The Defiant is not supposed to go up against the Borg alone, it was designed to be part of a fleet.
    2. Nevertheless, the Defiant survives a running battle with the Borg that lasts for hours.
     
  4. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    The music for Generations might have made V'ger more majestic
     
  5. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Generations looked like a more expensive Film that ST6 - but then, so did The Blair Witch Project...
     
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  6. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Fleet Captain Captain

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    I'm sure alot of it has been mentioned already, but the film had I believe a $30 million budget... with at least a third of that being eaten up by the cast. The film did not have a bit in the way of CGI, which we may forget today but that was EXPENSIVE at the time the movie was shot.

    I'm sure somebody brought up the uniforms they made and didn't use, which ate up a chunk of the budget.

    By and large though, story issues aside, the film looks great. There is some real magic there in having reused television sets built in the 80's in a modern motion picture and making them actually look pretty good. Yeah, it took some weird lighting and what not to make it work but I think it actually helps the visual style of the film. The scene in 10 Forward with the Armagosa stars light bathing the room is absolutely beautiful, and the darker lighting on the bridge I find appealing.

    So they reused a special effects shot that most people wouldn't notice, something that was also a fairly expensive thing to accomplish at the time. They probably couldn't do that in CG, so they would have had to build a new, feature film quality BoP model just to blow it up. They had a perfectly good BoP blowing up already.

    EDIT -

    It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I did think Generations had a distinct visual style that very much did look like they transitioned a TV show to the Big Screen. That's what it was, and that's what it looked like. I appreciate that. While the Enterprise-E and all the redesign for First Contact looks great... I kind of wish the E-D didn't go down and we got to see more big screen adventures with it.
     
  7. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Except that it was noticed. By a lot of people. And the reasons were stated more than once in the thread.

    I know why they did it, but it still sucked the triumph out of the moment.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Yeah, I was with evilchumlee until that paragraph.
     
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  9. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Fleet Captain Captain

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    I did say most people.

    Most people who saw Star Trek Generations are not posting on Star Trek forums, and even if they DID connect that it was the same shot, by and large didn't care. Hell, *I* did see Generation, *AM* posting on a Star Trek forum and... don't care. The shot was functional. It did what it needed to do.
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What's your source for your claim that most people who saw the movie didn't realize that the BoP explosion was a reuse?
     
  11. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Fleet Captain Captain

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    It's anecdotal.

    Much the same as making a claim that a significant amount of people either even noticed it all, or noticed it and cared.

    It's also like... not really that big of a deal. If you immediately recognized and it care about it, that's ok! IDIC
     
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  12. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago...
     
  13. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ST2 reused a lot of footage from ST1 and looked great
    STGen reused a few seconds of ST6 and it sucked

    The difference: 1) there was already home video in 1994 for some time, people had rewatched 6 in VHS. Not in 1979 to 1982

    and 2) The Bird of Prey explosion was the CLIMAX of both movies. Imagine if Kruge had used a Reliant-type ship in 3, and the CLIMACTIC explosion was recycled

    EDIT the Genesis effect too was great and everybody was happy to see it again in 3 and 4 (I dont remember it in 5,6 and on)
     
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  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I will say that one thing that bugged me about seeing the Genesis demo tape again in TSFS and TVH was the way Carol was replaced with Admiral Kirk. I know it's the realities of filmmaking, but I disliked seeing her swept under the rug that way even if they did a reasonable job of recontextualizing it so that it was Kirk reporting on what had happened in TWOK.
     
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  15. SithHappens

    SithHappens Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't recall noticing the BOP clip was reused, don't think I knew until Mr Plinkett told me.
     
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  16. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    I love Generations. And this criticism about how the lines for Scotty and Chekov were so obviously written for Spock and McCoy has always left me cold. Scotty's lines are pure Scotty, not Spock. And Chekov has the "I was never that young" line and quite appropriately, as a close friend of Sulu, introduces Demora to Kirk. I can't see Bones in either of those situations. I think the writers adapted or revised the dialogue perfectly for Scotty and very well for Chekov.
     
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  17. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    When I saw TWOK and Generations in the theater, I didn't realize there were reused shots. This was after watching TMP and STIII many times (TMP only at home; STIII in theater and at home).

    It wasn't until I read it here that I knew.
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It stood out to me with that stupid explosion.
     
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  19. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, that sums it up nicely. I forgive the reuse of the shots of the Enterprise leaving Spacedock in TWOK because A) It's early in the movie, and B) That's something that would likely look more or less the same each time out. A Bird of Prey blowing up at the climax? Not so much.
    For me, this exchange is pure Spock & Kirk, not Scotty & Kirk:
    I also think this line would've played much better with Nimoy's dry delivery:
    With Scotty, he's obviously being sarcastic, so it's not quite as funny.

    And this line is WAY too formal for Scotty but would be perfectly in character for Spock:
    Scotty always had a much more informal way of expressing himself, especially in crisis situations. Here are some examples off the top of my head. From TWOK:
    From "The Devil in the Dark":
    From "The Naked Time":
    And from "The Galileo Seven":
    That was the beauty of Scotty. He never gave a speech with great swaths of technobabble the way Geordi did. He just stated what was going on in simple terms so that his Captain (and the audience) could get it. Suddenly hearing him talk about "resonance bursts" and "the main deflector dish" like he just swallowed a copy of the TNG Technical Manual just sounded wrong.
    I agree that Chekov's wistful "I was never that young" and Kirk's reply "No... You were younger" is a nice moment that wouldn't work as well with any other character, since Chekov was the youngest member of Kirk's crew.
    This is another instance of what was obviously a McCoy bit just transferred over to Chekov with only (mutters in Russian) added to adjust it to his character:
    So yeah, I wish they'd rewritten the dialogue in GEN to fit Scotty & Chekov a bit more. It was pretty obvious they didn't do much more than replace the character names.
     
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  20. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I've read all of his Holmes novels, and enjoyed them all to varying degrees. The most recent one was just a few years ago.
     
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