Generations Cop Out!

[Takomaguy]

If Picard could have his dream life, wife, and family, along with his dead nephew (having him die was really phucked), it would have been interesting for him to meet Edith Keilor, of Miramanee, or both. Would it have made him harder to leave the Nexus? What would Picard have been willing to do, or forced to do to make him leave?

 

[cardinal biggles]

Why would Picard meet Edith Keeler or Miramanee? Or do you mean Kirk meeting them in the Nexus?

If it's the latter, J.M. Dillard's novelization does have Kirk act out weddings with a number of the women from his life including Edith Keeler and Carol Marcus; other dead people from his past including Gary Mitchell, Matt & Will Decker, and David are seen in the chapel attending these weddings.

 

[archeryguy1701]

Actually, the thing that has bothered me is the concept of whether or not he and Kirk actually left. The Nexus was taking them where ever it was that they most wanted to be. Well, Picard most wanted to be back on Veridian fighting Soran. And that's where he went. So, one could reason that anything that has happened to Picard since Generations was all in his fantasy. I mean, it makes sense. Picards greatest nightmare comes true (Borg invasion) and he beats them. Starfleet becomes corrupt, he does the heroic thing, rebels, and beats them. He meets an evil clone of himself. He comvinces himself that he couldn't be that evil, and beats him. Now, you will say that it wasn't his big fantasy because Data died and Riker and Troi leave. But wait! He has a Data replacement and he's always kinda wanted Riker to get his own command.

 

[Takomaguy]

You and I are of one mind. I wondered as much walking out of the theater. However, everyone wanted to treat it like "Kirk" was officially dead, so...

 

[AdmiralGarak]

archeryguy1701 said:
Actually, the thing that has bothered me is the concept of whether or not he and Kirk actually left. The Nexus was taking them where ever it was that they most wanted to be. Well, Picard most wanted to be back on Veridian fighting Soran. And that's where he went. So, one could reason that anything that has happened to Picard since Generations was all in his fantasy. I mean, it makes sense. Picards greatest nightmare comes true (Borg invasion) and he beats them. Starfleet becomes corrupt, he does the heroic thing, rebels, and beats them. He meets an evil clone of himself. He comvinces himself that he couldn't be that evil, and beats him. Now, you will say that it wasn't his big fantasy because Data died and Riker and Troi leave. But wait! He has a Data replacement and he's always kinda wanted Riker to get his own command.

So, Picard's fantasies also include the destruction of the Enterprise-D? (He didn't know what happened to the ship after beaming down.)

Still, Picard wishing Worf had never left the ship might explain why Worf apparently ditched a sweet ambassadorial position on his homeworld with his closest friend to become Picard's lackey again.

 

[TGTheodore]

archeryguy1701 said:
Actually, the thing that has bothered me is the concept of whether or not he and Kirk actually left. The Nexus was taking them where ever it was that they most wanted to be.

I can just imagine the riots at the theaters and online if they actually tried to use that to bring Kirk back.

--Ted

 

[Peach Wookiee]

So... Kirk wanted to die?

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Peach Wookiee said:
So... Kirk wanted to die?

Well, if it was Picard's fantasy, maybe he wanted Kirk to die...

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Then whose fantasy was it?

 

[archeryguy1701]

Peach Wookiee said:
So... Kirk wanted to die?

Maybe Picard never actually met Kirk. There was a briefing scene where the ENT-D crew establish that they were aware Kirk died during that initial Nexus encounter ,and the Guinan/ Guinan echo probably knew he encountered the Nexus, so Picard just imagined that Kirk would be the one to help him... I'm probably overthinking all of this, but the more full of it I sound, the more entertaining everybody's responses are.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

You'd think Kirk would want to see his son again...maybe.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

And if Picard and Kirk did leave, why isn't there another Picard already there? Since they exited before Picard entered, there should be two Jean Lucs.

Likewise, if time and space have no meaning in the Nexus...Dr. Soran is still inside, since he didn't leave and wasn't pulled out,...and a duplicate Soran was killed.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Dude... I'm gettin' a headache.

 

[David cgc]

archeryguy1701 said:
So, one could reason that anything that has happened to Picard since Generations was all in his fantasy.

Except Picard does not exist in a vacuum. All of Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise (which had a couple follow-ups to first contact) required that Picard and everyone else who had been on the Enterprise-D lived and actually went on their adventures. I can't really see how something 70,000 light years away that had no relevance to Picard's life could be a part of his ideal, perfect fantasy of being a galaxy-saving hero.

 

[nx1701g]

Peach Wookiee said:
Dude... I'm gettin' a headache.

I agree. This is worse than Temporal Mechanics.

 

[archeryguy1701]

David cgc said:

archeryguy1701 said:
So, one could reason that anything that has happened to Picard since Generations was all in his fantasy.

Except Picard does not exist in a vacuum. All of Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise (which had a couple follow-ups to first contact) required that Picard and everyone else who had been on the Enterprise-D lived and actually went on their adventures. I can't really see how something 70,000 light years away that had no relevance to Picard's life could be a part of his ideal, perfect fantasy of being a galaxy-saving hero.

Who's to say the Nexus didn't pick a few people from the Enterprise when it went by? Let's say that Barclay was grabbed. VOY was from his mind. He wanted to be a big damn hero, and finding and helping Voyager was his thing. Maybe he was imagining what they were going through (which would explain why it was such a mediocre series ). He could have based it on a real ship that disappeared. DS9 has O'Brien and Worf. Maybe it picked up O'Brien, so being on a station with his family was his desire,and he imagined his old buddy Worf showing up. As for ENT, most of it occured in reality, but... well... well, some fans would be happy to declare ENT non-cannon, so for the sake of my arguement, any references to the Borg or Picard's interference in FC shouldn't count.

I know. Most of this is very scetchy logic at best, but I figure that if I'm going to go down this road,I'm going all the way down it!

 

[Peach Wookiee]

This is fun...

 

[Kegek]

archeryguy1701 said:
DS9 has O'Brien and Worf. Maybe it picked up O'Brien, so being on a station with his family was his desire,and he imagined his old buddy Worf showing up.

Ah, but O'Brien was on DS9 before Generations, see "Emissary". So explain away that!

 

[USS KG5]

Peach Wookiee said:
Dude... I'm gettin' a headache.

This thread needs a bit of Occam's Razor maybe?

Or...

Maybe the Ent-D was destroyed in Picard's fantasy because he knew the Sovereign class was being developed and he WANTED ONE???? Eh?

 

[Ebuntor]

archeryguy1701 said:
Actually, the thing that has bothered me is the concept of whether or not he and Kirk actually left. The Nexus was taking them where ever it was that they most wanted to be. Well, Picard most wanted to be back on Veridian fighting Soran. And that's where he went. So, one could reason that anything that has happened to Picard since Generations was all in his fantasy. I mean, it makes sense. Picards greatest nightmare comes true (Borg invasion) and he beats them. Starfleet becomes corrupt, he does the heroic thing, rebels, and beats them. He meets an evil clone of himself. He comvinces himself that he couldn't be that evil, and beats him. Now, you will say that it wasn't his big fantasy because Data died and Riker and Troi leave. But wait! He has a Data replacement and he's always kinda wanted Riker to get his own command.

Wesley was at Riker and Troi's wedding, why would he want that brat there? He was prolly glad he finally got rid of him . Besides if Wesley was to become Riker's Chief Engineer on the Titan why would he do that to Riker if he was really sorry to see him go?