Generations: A Defence

[Captain Zog]

For years, people have been bad-mouthing this film, but I think it's ahead of even The Voyage Home in terms of sheer Trekkian brilliance. Granted, it has its problems, but let's focus on the good points:

1. It's the closest we'll ever get to seeing TNG as depicted in the series on the big screen. This movie retains a lot of elements from the series that the later films discard.

2. An intelligent and well thought-out plot. Excellent and moving sub-plots, i.e. Data's emotion chip and the death of Picard's relatives (and how this would make staying in the Nexus an even greater temptation to him).

3. The very concept of the Nexus - strong sci-fi element here.

4. Kirk and Picard interacting.

5. The destruction of the D. Much more epic than the destruction of the original Enterprise in ST III (although I wish it had been a Romulan Warbird that had caused it rather than a crusty old BoP).

In summary, I think Generations is one of the better Trek films and definitely worth a re-evaluation by Trek fans.

 

[Siwilliams]

I have always liked Star Trek Generations, second best Trek film after First Contact

 

[msbae]

Okay... How about a detraction, purely for the sake of argument.

1.) Destroying the Enterprise-D? Oh, WTF is this Shit?!

2.) Finally showing me the Enterprise-B, only to tear a huge gaping hole in it's port side? Again, WTF is this Shit?!

3.) Killing Captain Kirk... Yeah... F*** this movie!

That being said, I do like the premise of the story, the way the Enterprise-D's bridge looked (before the saucer crashed) and the Nexus idea.

 

[Siwilliams]

Okay... How about a detraction, purely for the sake of argument.

1.) Destroying the Enterprise-D? Oh,

2.) Finally showing me the Enterprise-B,
3.) Killing Captain Kirk...

To all three.....why not?

 

[msbae]

Okay... How about a detraction, purely for the sake of argument.

1.) Destroying the Enterprise-D? Oh,

2.) Finally showing me the Enterprise-B,
3.) Killing Captain Kirk...

To all three.....why not?

1.) Killing Kirk was a terrible idea. Like an old soldier, he shouldn't have died, just faded away.

2.) I grew up following the adventures of NCC-1701-D in first-run syndication. Destroying the Enterprise-D made my inner child cry. THOSE BASTARDS RAPED AND MURDERED MY CHILDHOOD!!!

3.) Kicking the crap out of Enterprise-B is fine but, not on the first date. That's just bad form. At least let the audience get to know her before she's mangled in the line of duty.

 

[Captain Zog]

Okay... How about a detraction, purely for the sake of argument.

1.) Destroying the Enterprise-D? Oh,

2.) Finally showing me the Enterprise-B,
3.) Killing Captain Kirk...

To all three.....why not?

Precisely. The Enterprise-E is a beautiful ship and I'm glad they used it in FC instead of the D, which had had 7 years of on-screen activity. And what's the prob with damaging the B? I mean, they can always repair it, can't they? Plus I'm glad the film showed us how Kirk died. I mean, the guy wasn't immortal.

 

[Siwilliams]

Okay... How about a detraction, purely for the sake of argument.

1.) Destroying the Enterprise-D? Oh,

2.) Finally showing me the Enterprise-B,
3.) Killing Captain Kirk...

To all three.....why not?

Precisely. The Enterprise-E is a beautiful ship and I'm glad they used it in FC instead of the D, which had had 7 years of on-screen activity. And what's the prob with damaging the B? I mean, they can always repair it, can't they? Plus I'm glad the film showed us how Kirk died. I mean, the guy wasn't immortal.

Exactly!

Also I found nothing wrong with the way they show Kirk die, he helped save the day

 

[Jefferies]

Having watched the film recently, I have also come to the conclusion it's rather good. Okay, they killed off Kirk in a bad way, and the fact Picard only goes back a few minutes instead of several hours or more when he leaves the Nexus is a gapping plot hole.

But, apart form that, it comes together very well. All the TNG characters work perfectly with many enjoyable character scenes. In addition, the movie has a lot of epic impact something that latter TNG instalments tend to lack (even First Contact, due to the reset button effect you get with time travel stories). Also the Nexus is the first real sci-fi concept since TMP so that's a plus as well. Its an intriguing and fun movie with a slightly bitter taste toward the end when Kirk passes away.

Personnally, I feel this movie is treated very unfairly. However, with the passing of time and no new 24th century stories being told, fans might get over their sour grapes and appreciate the film for what it is.

 

[Siwilliams]

Picard only goes back a few minutes instead of several hours or more when he leaves the Nexus is a gapping plot hole.

I don't see what is wrong with that....there is the whole Temporal Prime Directive....not going to far in past that would alter other lives and events.....also the Nexus is a temporal ribbon...so it made sense when Picard and Kirk showed up on Veridian 3

 

[Jefferies]

I don't see what is wrong with that....there is the whole Temporal Prime Directive....not going to far in past that would alter other lives and events.....also the Nexus is a temporal ribbon...so it made sense when Picard and Kirk showed up on Veridian 3

Well, he is meddling so the temporal directive has already been breached. Thing is, by only going back a few minutes he risks failing again, even though he had Kirk's help. They were both unarmed so Soran could have shot them. If they had gone back say an hour and destroyed the launcher there would have been no risk and Soran couldn't have done anything to stop them, because he wasn't on the planet yet.

 

[RyanKCR]

How was it much more epic? To me it was just a plot device. No emotional impact. Of course I never cared for the D and was happy to see it go.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

How was it much more epic? To me it was just a plot device. No emotional impact. Of course I never cared for the D and was happy to see it go.

I'll answer that one.

It sucks the D got taken out by an obsolete Bird of Prey and not a state of the art warship because its kind of embarrassing to lose the Federation flagship that way.

 

[dave_R_treker]

To all three.....why not?

Precisely. The Enterprise-E is a beautiful ship and I'm glad they used it in FC instead of the D, which had had 7 years of on-screen activity. And what's the prob with damaging the B? I mean, they can always repair it, can't they? Plus I'm glad the film showed us how Kirk died. I mean, the guy wasn't immortal.

Exactly!

Also I found nothing wrong with the way they show Kirk die, he helped save the day

I didn't have a problem with the death of Kirk either. Though I did have a problem with them just leaving him there on that planet. He should have gotten a proper burial and service.

 

[RyanKCR]

The destruction of the D. Much more epic than the destruction of the original Enterprise in ST III (although I wish it had been a Romulan Warbird that had caused it rather than a crusty old BoP).

How was it much more epic? To me it was just a plot device. No emotional impact. Of course I never cared for the D and was happy to see it go.

I'll answer that one.

It sucks the D got taken out by an obsolete Bird of Prey and not a state of the art warship because its kind of embarrassing to lose the Federation flagship that way.

But how is that more epic that what happened to the original?

 

[Siwilliams]

How was it much more epic? To me it was just a plot device. No emotional impact. Of course I never cared for the D and was happy to see it go.

I'll answer that one.

It sucks the D got taken out by an obsolete Bird of Prey and not a state of the art warship because its kind of embarrassing to lose the Federation flagship that way.

But how is that more epic that what happened to the original?

There is no difference, they are both good

 

[2 of 10]

It's not really that Kirk died, it's how he died. It was a very common death, the circumstances were at hand to make it a much more honorable death, however, I think the writers did a good job, making it heroic, helping to save a entire planet, but also making it more than going out in a blaze of glory, part of a bridge fell on him, happens every day in real life, to real people.

His final words were also not Shakespear, "it was fun" was that anyway for James T Kirk to go out. And then buring him on Veridan III, it kind or reminded me of the way that the disposed of Spock on the Genesis Planet. One would think that they would have been brough back for a proper burial.

Resistance is Futile

 

[Cky]

Well, you know. How do I sum up Generations in to words that explains exactly what I think about it.

Okay so, firstly we're on the Enterprise-B, the new flagship of the federation (?). Kirk, Scotty and Chekov decide to go on board to start her maiden voyage. Anyway this ship that Guinen is on sends out a distress call and the Enterprise doesn't have any of the nessessary systems needed. What the fuck? As far as I know at this point the Enterprise-B was ready to go, which is why they got Kirk out of retirement to come on board, but no.

Anyway after all that crap the Enterprise-B gets it's ass handed to it and then we join the TNG crew on a ship promoting Worf. Anyway the whole middle of the film is complete garbage. We see Data completely out of character for the entire film and feeling guilty about not being able to help La Forge.

Anyway, later on Picard gets sucked in to the Nexus, and we're in a house that we've never seen before, with his wife and kids that we've never seen before, and never will again. Anyway Guinan comes in to his Nexus, but it's not really her, or something like that it's never explained. Anyway Picard figures out hes in the Nexus, again without any explanation. So anyway he wants to get out to stop Soran after failing last time when he bamed down with no communicator and phaser.

Anyway, guinan says to Picard that he can leave at any point in time and space, instead of going back to when they met in 10-forward and kicking his ass there and then, he decides to go back to a point where he's alone and getting his ass kicked.

Anyway he goes back and recruits Kirk, why? Nobody really knows. He could stay there for a million years recruiting everyone in the Nexus, but instead he decides to take Kirk out of his cabin, a place we've never seen ever.

So anyway, they talk and talk and finally go back to Soran, at this point I'm asking the question "why doesn't Kirk go back in to his time and give a warning to everyone about Soran?". Anyway they fight for what seems like an hour, in the mean while Picard locks the clamps and then Kirk dies.

Soran then stands there looking like an idiot, 10 seconds later a small explosion happens which apparently kills him. Anyway Picard apparently carries Kirk all the way back up the mountain, but instead of giving him the Starfleet burial he deserves, he buries him under rocks, nice.

So really, to sum it all up. We lose the Enterprise-D, Kirk, all respect for Data and over an hour of our time. And we gained sweet fuck all.

 

[Ward Fowler]

So really, to sum it all up. We lose the Enterprise-D, Kirk, all respect for Data and over an hour of our time. And we gained sweet fuck all.

That about covers it.

 

[Supernova]

I find it hard to defend certain aspects of this movie. Everyone involved admits it was a rushed job, and we all know how those end up. The Nexus was a shitty idea. And I find it next to impossible to believe that there wasn't a better way to merge both casts. They could've used Trelane and Q and it would've been easily accessible to non-Trekkies. Someone from each cast could've explained to the other cast who Trelane and Q are, thus it's easily taken care of. -Dan

 

[david g]

As someone who likes most of the Trek films--I seem to be one of the few who likes NEMESIS--I must join in with the naysayers. GENERATIONS is a *terrible* film, combining the most boring elements of TNG with a total washing out of the mythic character of Captain Kirk.

The movie rests on the premise that Kirk--the relentlessly scrappy hero--would live idly in the Nexus dreamworld while Picard *knows* he's in one and can rally Kirk to his aid. The arrogance of TNG's attitude twds TOS has never been clearer.

Dont even get me started on Data's emotion chip and the gratuitous yuks it apparently enabled.

I will admit to being moved by Kirk's death scene. But what a dull way overall to see Kirk go out. The biggest crime in the film is that there is NO spark in the rapport bw Shatner-Stewart, Kirk-Picard. Picard is at his dullest around Kirk, while Kirk seems mentally ill. What a disaster!

Apart from the idiotic plot of INSURRECTION, the later TNG films are all much better, imo.