General Trek Questions and Observations

[Will_Carter]

Something recently occured to me... the preservation of history did not require Edith Keeler's actual death, just her to not exist in our timeline. So why doesn’t Kirk just bring her back to the 23rd century with him?

'History says you die. So... we're taking a third option of removing you from history.'

I think the problem is Kirk had no way of bringing her forward. The Guardian brought them there, then pulled them back. So it was ultimately the Guardian's call, and kirk couldn't exactly revise the plan once there.

 

[Kraig]

Something recently occured to me... the preservation of history did not require Edith Keeler's actual death, just her to not exist in our timeline. So why doesn’t Kirk just bring her back to the 23rd century with him?

In order for the timeline to be restored, her obituary had to occur in the newspaper. The Guardian of Forever would not bring Kirk, Spock and McCoy back until the timeline was restored.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

See the short story, "Remembering the Future," in SNW 9, and also DRG's Crucible Trilogy.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Something recently occured to me... the preservation of history did not require Edith Keeler's actual death, just her to not exist in our timeline. So why doesn’t Kirk just bring her back to the 23rd century with him?

Butterfly effect.

 

[cooleddie74]

Whereas with Gillian Taylor there was no changed history to fix, just a one-way ticket for a woman who had no other ties to 1986 keeping her in the 20th century. She could travel with Kirk to the future.

 

[Commander Troi]

I dunno. It's always kind of bothered me that Gillian just disappears to the future. Surely someone looked for her?

 

[Oddish]

Butterfly effect.

Doesn't exist on Trek. Look at "First Contact"; all of Cochrane's ground and flight crew died, but history was unaffected.

Whereas with Gillian Taylor there was no changed history to fix, just a one-way ticket for a woman who had no other ties to 1986 keeping her in the 20th century. She could travel with Kirk to the future.

If her, why not Edith?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Doesn't exist on Trek. Look at "First Contact"; all of Cochrane's ground and flight crew died, but history was unaffected.

It exists when the plot requires it to exists.

 

[Henoch]

Doesn't exist on Trek. Look at "First Contact"; all of Cochrane's ground and flight crew died, but history was unaffected.



If her, why not Edith?

Apparently, the rules for time travel aren't always the same.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I dunno. It's always kind of bothered me that Gillian just disappears to the future. Surely someone looked for her?

Were it not for time travel, she could have been one of those disappearances that wasn't ever solved - like in a car that careens into a small lake, or someone who dies in the wilderness while hiking alone and is scavenged by animals/buried by leaf litter, never to be located.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno. It's always kind of bothered me that Gillian just disappears to the future. Surely someone looked for her?

She had that brief appearance on "Unsolved Mysteries." later on as a news story.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I dunno. It's always kind of bothered me that Gillian just disappears to the future. Surely someone looked for her?

The whole of STIV played fast and loose with time travel. Cowboy temporal mechanics, if you will.

 

[Will_Carter]

If her, why not Edith?

Because the Guardian was their ticket home and the Guardian decided when they left. I imagine if things had been different Kirk would have done some heroic insanity to make it LOOK like she got hit by the car and then whisked her off to the future.

Were it not for time travel, she could have been one of those disappearances that wasn't ever solved - like in a car that careens into a small lake, or someone who dies in the wilderness while hiking alone and is scavenged by animals/buried by leaf litter, never to be located.

History probably records her going after 'her' whales and never being seen again and her death being blamed on poachers.

She had that brief appearance on "Unsolved Mysteries." later on as a news story.

Especially given the oddball nature of Spock. You'd see some creepy forensics sketch artist recreation of Spock in robes in her missing persons segment with the account distorted to make it sound like he's the leader of a new age cult.

Has she appeared in any later trek fiction? Given Cetation Ops is a thing by the time of TNG she probably was at least a consultant for the Federation when it came to humpbacks.

Also depressingly. All they did was delay the extinction of humpback whales by a few decades or so. Their kid, or another down the line, may well be around by the time of TNG, but with no other breeding pairs, they're the last as the Federation seems very... cloning adverse..

 

[Shawnster]

.

Also depressingly. All they did was delay the extinction of humpback whales by a few decades or so. Their kid, or another down the line, may well be around by the time of TNG, but with no other breeding pairs, they're the last as the Federation seems very... cloning adverse..

Cloning, in vitro, and genetic manipulation are a thing by the 23rd century. Between all three the humpback population could be restored to a sizeable community. It would not take long before a stable breeding population developed.

 

[Oddish]

Cloning, in vitro, and genetic manipulation are a thing by the 23rd century. Between all three the humpback population could be restored to a sizeable community. It would not take long before a stable breeding population developed.

The novelization of STIV stated that that was what was planned. George and Gracie, through their songs, would create a foundation for a new humpback culture, but repopulation would not fall to only them.

 

[NCC-73515]

Because the Guardian was their ticket home and the Guardian decided when they left. I imagine if things had been different Kirk would have done some heroic insanity to make it LOOK like she got hit by the car and then whisked her off to the future.



History probably records her going after 'her' whales and never being seen again and her death being blamed on poachers.



Especially given the oddball nature of Spock. You'd see some creepy forensics sketch artist recreation of Spock in robes in her missing persons segment with the account distorted to make it sound like he's the leader of a new age cult.

Has she appeared in any later trek fiction? Given Cetation Ops is a thing by the time of TNG she probably was at least a consultant for the Federation when it came to humpbacks.

Also depressingly. All they did was delay the extinction of humpback whales by a few decades or so. Their kid, or another down the line, may well be around by the time of TNG, but with no other breeding pairs, they're the last as the Federation seems very... cloning adverse..

 

[Tenacity]

Whereas with Gillian Taylor there was no changed history to fix, just a one-way ticket for a woman who had no other ties to 1986 keeping her in the 20th century. She could travel with Kirk to the future.

SPOCK: I have run a computer check on all historical tapes. They show no record of any relevant contribution by John Christopher.

Gillian was a marine biologist who worked (in part) as a tour guide. Was she going to do any major ground breaking work, did she ever have children?

It's always kind of bothered me that Gillian just disappears to the future. Surely someone looked for her?

When the whales were released, she struck a co-worker (boss?) because it wasn't run passed her, if that's the type of person she was, maybe no one missed her. The assumption might have been that she quit/moved because of the whales release.

 

[Oddish]

Gillian was a marine biologist who worked (in part) as a tour guide. Was she going to do any major ground breaking work, did she ever have children?

She revealed somewhere, maybe in the book, that she had no one but those whales. So... maybe she was someone that a durable timeline could dispense with.

 

[UssGlenn]

Whereas with Gillian Taylor there was no changed history to fix, just a one-way ticket for a woman who had no other ties to 1986 keeping her in the 20th century. She could travel with Kirk to the future.

I dunno. It's always kind of bothered me that Gillian just disappears to the future. Surely someone looked for her?

History probably records her going after 'her' whales and never being seen again and her death being blamed on poachers.

I figure in the original Timeline George and Gracie were killed by that whaling ship. They would have been able to figure that out when analyzing the transponder signal. Gillian then committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

But nobody saw her, and no body was ever found. Or if someone did see her, she became an environmental martyr after her death, which delayed the whales' extinction somewhat, but ultimately didn't stop it.