General Trek Questions and Observations

[Moviefan2k4]

Maybe it just has high standards, but not insurmountable ones. I mean, Barclay made it through the academy, despite having some issues.

I loved Dwight Schultz from reruns of "The A-Team" as a kid, and I was beyond thrilled when he showed up on "TNG". Then later, he had a bit part in "First Contact" and some good stuff with Marina Sirtis on "Voyager". I actually got to meet him once, at a convention in 2006. He posed for a fan photo, with me and "Spin City" actor Alan Ruck. I also got a signed "A-Team" 8x10, which he signed with "Howling Mad, Dwight Schultz."

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

So, is it actually true that the Academy gets all the best people or is Starfleet mainly blowing its own trumpet here?

Every organization likes to think theirs is the best.

I imagine many scientists make their way through the academy, whether they go on to have Starfleet careers or not, as visiting professors, students who move on to other things, Starfleet members who later change careers, etc.

 

[rredmond]

Every organization likes to think theirs is the best.

Very good point! Have we seen characters in Star Fleet that didn't attend the academy?

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Somebody needs to revive caption contests again, when we have gems like these: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/File:James_T._Kirk_confronts_Matt_Decker.jpg

KIRK: Commodore! What happened to your crew?! Answer me!
McCOY: Jim? Stop cramming pennies down his throat!
SCOTT: Gentlemen, this is the finest Etch-a-Sketch I have ever used. It dinna squeaks at all.

 

[fireproof78]

Every organization likes to think theirs is the best.

I imagine many scientists make their way through the academy, whether they go on to have Starfleet careers or not, as visiting professors, students who move on to other things, Starfleet members who later change careers, etc.

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[cooleddie74]

Where will YOU be when that Ghost Chili Pepper Burger you were dared to eat decides to come out the other end?

View attachment 39223

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Very good point! Have we seen characters in Star Fleet that didn't attend the academy?

Miles O'Brien. (And any other enlisted character.)

Also, I don't think we saw anyone specific but the Bajoran Defence Forces were supposed to become integrated into Starfleet once Bajor joined the Federation. That's probably standard procedure for any new member and likely doesn't involve sending every trained officer to SF Academy.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Certainly not for a full four-year degree program.

I would assume that assessments would done and it necessary individuals might be sent on some sort of "Starfleet OCS", particularly if they hadn't had "deep space starship" experience.

 

[at Quark's]

Bajoran crewman Tal Celes (the rank suggests enlistment) talked about her time at the academy. She graduated from a program, but presumably she took some shorter program, not the full four-year program for officers, otherwise she'd have been an Ensign at least.

As to whether such program is a requirement even for crewmen (or just optional), I don't know.

When this happened, Bajor was not a member of the Federation, might not even have petitioned yet. After all, according to stardates Voyager disappeared somewhere in the middle of S3 DS9, and the events of Rapture were 2 years later, when we hear their petition had been approved. And obviously, Tales would have attended the academy even before that. It's therefore most likely that Bajoran people like her joined on an individual basis (like Nog).

Riker refers to Mott as 'the best barber in Starfleet'. If we take his words literally, (i.e. Mott is Starfleet personnel, and not just someone 'working close to Starfleet personnel' he might be an example. That is, I don't think Starfleet Academy would give hairdressing training). But I'll agree this is reading a lot into a throwaway line

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Riker refers to Mott as 'the best barber in Starfleet'. If we take his words literally, (i.e. Mott is Starfleet personnel, and not just someone 'working close to Starfleet personnel' he might be an example. That is, I don't think Starfleet Academy would give hairdressing training).

Really why?

The US armed forces do: https://www.navy.com/careers-benefi...ics-administration/retail-services-specialist

Now, it's only a 5-week course, not a four-year degree but I believe there's potential if you allow for specialist support positions within the fleet (at least on major capital ships and starbases).

 

[Shawnster]

Really why?

The US armed forces do:

So, the question is: is Starfleet Academy equal to simple military enlistment or is it equal to Annapolis Naval Academy or West Point? Do such academies as West Point or Annapolis train barbers?

From DS9 "Starship Down
O'BRIEN: With all due respect, I think you're riding the men a bit hard. You have to understand, they're out of their element. They're not bridge officers, they haven't been to Starfleet Academy. They're engineers. They're used to being given a problem to solve, then going out and figuring out how to do it.

Sounds like only Academy graduates can be bridge officers.

Not all Starfleet personnel go to the academy. If Mott is Starfleet, he needn't be an academy graduate.

What is Starfleet training like for enlisted personnel?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

So, the question is: is Starfleet Academy equal to simple military enlistment or is it equal to Annapolis Naval Academy or West Point? Do such academies as West Point or Annapolis train barbers?

It's possible that the same overall structure ("Starfleet Training Command" sometimes informally referred to as "the Academy" by officers) is also responsible for the education of enlisted personnel. Whether they train at the same facilities is likely variable as there is almost certainly more to "the Academy" than the campus at San Francisco regardless of the occassional implication that this is the case.

Sounds like only Academy graduates can be bridge officers.

It's certainly the fastest way to do it (but O'Brien, a non-graduate, is also a Bridge Officer so it's not an absolute limit, just perhaps for juniors), though again this doesn't necessarily mean the San Francisco facility.

Not all Starfleet personnel go to the academy. If Mott is Starfleet, he needn't be an academy graduate.

Not in the sense of completing a degree certainly.

What is Starfleet training like for enlisted personnel?

Well, the simple answer is we mostly don't know because "graduates are just better and more worthy", but if we ignore that elitist BS then we could assume from the little that we do know (the quote from Starship Down above and The Drumhead being the main ones) that similar to modern training it varies according to specialism, but is typically focused on that specialism for the most part and is shorter than a four-year degree (barbers are 5wks for the USN, corpsman are 19wks+).

 

[at Quark's]

Really why?

The US armed forces do: https://www.navy.com/careers-benefi...ics-administration/retail-services-specialist

Now, it's only a 5-week course, not a four-year degree but I believe there's potential if you allow for specialist support positions within the fleet (at least on major capital ships and starbases).

Seems that unfortunately, that domain blocks access from my country, so I can't read about it (perhaps I should get myself VPN one of these days). But is this a course for personnel that are already in the navy (and already had general military training) and wish to specialize in that kind of service? Or is it a course for 'civilians' that already have learned that specialty and just wish to obtain a similar position (job) in the navy?

 

[Kraig]

Seems that unfortunately, that domain blocks access from my country, so I can't read about it (perhaps I should get myself VPN one of these days). But is this a course for personnel that are already in the navy (and already had general military training) and wish to specialize in that kind of service? Or is it a course for 'civilians' that already have learned that specialty and just wish to obtain a similar position (job) in the navy?

It is for enlistees in the US Navy, not officers or civilians. In the US when you see a military recruiter you take a test called the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB). The ASVAB scores are used by all the branches of the Armed Forces to determine what schooling you qualify for. You can request a particular job if your scores are high enough. You aren't garanteed any position. They are filled based on the needs of the service.You find out near the end of recruit training what schools you will be going to or if you are going to the fleet as undesignated.

You can usually access Geo-locked links from your country using a free Proxy server. Paste the link you want to go to and select a Web server in the US from the drop down menu. Virginia is closest to Washington D.C. so that is the one I would pick.

 

[Shawnster]

You can request a particular job if your scores are high enough. You aren't garanteed any position. They are filled based on the needs of the service.

I heard about 2 experiences in regards to this. Back during the Cold War a young man was encouraged to study a less popular language in order to improve his chances at receiving whatever translation posting that he preferred. Most of his colleagues in this field studied German or Russian, so the chances of receiving such an assignment were slim. Instead, he studied an Arabic language. With so few people studying this language, he was able to qualify for the posting of his choice in the Middle East.

Another individual wanted to serve on an aircraft carrier. He studied meteorology. Since so few others thought about the importance of a meteorologist on an aircraft carrier, this individual was pretty much guaranteed that posting assignment.

So, good on Mott to see the need for barbers on Galaxy Class starships while everyone else vied for a bridge posting.

 

[trekshark]

What is Starfleet training like for enlisted personnel?

I don't think there is much to go off of, but there's this from Drumhead

"Yes, sir. All my life I wanted to be in Starfleet. I went to the Academy's training program for enlisted personnel. I took training as a medical technician and I served at several outposts. The day that I was posted to the Enterprise was the happiest day of my life."

 

[UssGlenn]

They're not bridge officers, they haven't been to Starfleet Academy. They're engineers.

Sounds like only Academy graduates can be bridge officers.

but O'Brien, a non-graduate, is also a Bridge Officer so it's not an absolute limit, just perhaps for juniors)

I think "They're not bridge officers" is a separate statement from "they haven't been to Starfleet Academy", that is to say both show their mentality but are unrelated to each other.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I think what O'Brien is trying to say is that Academy graduates (that is to say persons who have attended for at least four years and obtained an undergraduate degree or better) rather than specialists that might be attended select courses at the Academy (either the main campus itself or one of various annexes) are trained to a level multitasking and "big picture" awareness that most specialists (whose training focuses on that specialism and applying it to known and perhaps unknown problems).

 

[cooleddie74]

A great video dropped about two weeks ago by one of my favorite Trek YouTube channels.

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[at Quark's]

Suppose the Borg assimilate a Vidiian, infected with the Phage. Would the Borg be able to 'cure' the assimilated drone of the Phage? Or would the Borg know and refrain from assimilating Vidiians in the first place?