Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Lord Garth]

And I would consider a horrendous destruction of one of the best character stories in the history of modern trek to awkwardly transform it into the epitome of fankwank.

I mean, would The Inner Light have been better if we had a sequel where it's shown that Picard's flute has Clarketech abilities, and he can play it and be transported anywhere in space and time? No, it would destroy a sweet little story about human relationships.

Calypso was about the relationship between Craft and Zora. The little glimpses of the future of the Trekverse were just meant as flavor, not as plot. Indeed, my understanding is when Chabon came up with the story idea he picked 1,000 years in the future at random, and Kurtzman was like "sure, okay."

Trek is a framework which can be used to tell any story, which is part of its beauty. If everything in modern Trek is woven together to be part of a single story, the fictional world becomes much smaller and more tawdry.

That's a bit hyperbolic. "Calypso" can be something that happened while Discovery was waiting around. If the ship ends up abandoned that begs the question, how did it end up so. "Calypso" is a small story. What happened to Discovery isn't. You'd think a show named Discovery would want to discover how that happened.

It won't change what I think of "Calypso".

 

[eschaton]

That's a bit hyperbolic. "Calypso" can be something that happened while Discovery was waiting around. If the ship ends up abandoned that begs the question, how did it end up so. "Calypso" is a small story. What happened to Discovery isn't.

And it won't change what I think of "Calypso".

I mean, I think the off-show reason Calypso was on Discovery was because the standing set made the show cheap to produce. Though I do admit the mystery of why the ship was abandoned - and who abandoned it - added some intrigue. I suppose we have also heard Discovery will be evacuated late in the season - probably with the crew at least temporarily onboard the Enterprise. It's only a step beyond this to think this is when the ship is abandoned it sits in place for 1,000 years and it could be reclaimed with Zora onboard through some time travel shenanigans.

However, no matter how many people try and square the circle, the V'Draysh do not make any sense as part of a universe where Control has won. AI would not be using lifepods that Craft could hijack. And he gave no indication that his enemies were machines - something you might have expected once he realized Zora was an AI herself. Not to mention Spock said all sentient life would die, but Craft - and his entire homeworld - were apparently fine 1,000 years in the future. It's perhaps a "fall of the Federation" scenario, but nothing more than that.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Personally I would consider that to be a huge letdown.

To each his own.

But I think Calypso was a beautiful stand-alone story. It was reminiscent of one of those short stories I used to find in Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine or Omni or something similar when I was younger. Those Science Fiction Anthology Magazine-type stories were great because they stood alone.

Part (just a part) of Calypso's appeal to me is the mystery of why the ship was abandoned, but that mystery is better left intact. Taking that mystery away by explaining it and otherwise tacking that stand-alone short story onto the series as a whole I think will only serve to fairly-slightly cheapen a powerful story.

Of course, that doesn't mean it won't happen. Just because I don't want them to somewhat cheapen Calypso by removing that enjoyable mystery and also attaching it to another episode doesn't mean they won't do that very thing. I'd still enjoy it, but I think it would take a fair bit of that enjoyment away.

EDIT TO ADD:
Frankly, I think Calypso would have been just as powerful a story even if the ship wasn't the Discovery -- rather just some other anonymous Earth ship that had been mysteriously and abruptly abandoned 1000 years earlier with its computer left alone diligently awaiting the crew's return.

The point of the story is that Zora was left all alone for 1000 years until Craft came. It was Zora and Craft's story. It was not the story of Burhham, Saru, Stamets, et al. and why they abandoned ship.

Although I'm fine with the ship being the Discovery. Obviously it the Discovery is what makes it a short story set in the Star Trek: Discovery TV-show world. I'm just saying that the story it told does not require it to be the Discovery, and similarly nor does it require an explanation as to why it has been abandoned.

 

[SCE2Aux]

https://trekmovie.com/2019/03/26/in...ek-discovery-section-31-lower-decks-and-more/
I thought the first question put to Kurtzman in this article (and his response) was very interesting. I suppose he could just be obfuscating for the sake of obfuscating, but he might be hinting that there may be some timeline shenanigans at the end of the season, and that could mean there is an impact on what Picard would be aware of in relation to Discovery. He has said in the past that season 2 would align Discovery to canon, so maybe this is a part of that alignment.

Or I could just be talking out my ass.

 

[Discofan]

I think we'll have a big reveal by the end of the season.

 

[Lord Garth]

However, no matter how many people try and square the circle, the V'Draysh do not make any sense as part of a universe where Control has won. AI would not be using lifepods that Craft could hijack. And he gave no indication that his enemies were machines - something you might have expected once he realized Zora was an AI herself. Not to mention Spock said all sentient life would die, but Craft - and his entire homeworld - were apparently fine 1,000 years in the future. It's perhaps a "fall of the Federation" scenario, but nothing more than that.

I would assume that preventing Control from winning would restore the timeline to what it originally was (whatever that means) and "Calypso" would be in the "right" future. To use Back to the Future terms, "Calypso" is like the 2015 Doc and Marty traveled to and the Control Future is like what 2015 would've been like if Biff had the Almanac.

Best counterpoint I can come up with for talking in the dark.

I think we'll have a big reveal by the end of the season.

I think a lot of us will have egg on our face at the end of the season. Probably myself included. But I'll give the best go at it that I can in the meantime.

 

[Ruufio]

I had a theory about "Calypso". What if Airium, in her death throws, uploaded her conscience to Discovery. And that who Zora is!

 

[T'Bonz]

I can think of a few scenarios, but only one thing would truly shock me. They kill off Pike and Spock who are en route back to the Enterprise.

Then I'd have to fly out to L.A.

 

[Vger23]

I don't feel any compelling need to tie Star Trek: Discovery into the "Calypso" Short. It was an intriguing and touching piece of science fiction in a Trek setting. But to subvert an entire two season's worth of story and setting is not worth it to me.

Let "Calypso" be. And don't worry about "syncing DSC up to canon" simply because a few vocal crazies who take this shit way too seriously. Fuck, just tell good Trek stories with good characters. The show has done well thus far, I don't see why any drastic change is viewed as needed or desired.

 

[Midquest]

I don't feel any compelling need to tie Star Trek: Discovery into the "Calypso" Short. It was an intriguing and touching piece of science fiction in a Trek setting. But to subvert an entire two season's worth of story and setting is not worth it to me.

While I agree with you that I'd be happy for "Calypso" to stand elegantly on its own, I do think that if you're a writer for a space drama, you want to have every tool possible in your arsenal to generate suspense. One of the most basic ones is surely "ship in danger," but knowing that Discovery lasts for 1,000 years or more would tend to undermine that source of tension. I'd say that this is the kind of show that would entertain blowing up its main starship, but now whenever anything bad happens to it, my reaction is, "Eh, can't be that bad if it survives in "Calypso"! So I would think that the writers would want to get past the short as soon as they can.

 

[Alan Roi]

And I would consider a horrendous destruction of one of the best character stories in the history of modern trek to awkwardly transform it into the epitome of fankwank.

I mean, would The Inner Light have been better if we had a sequel where it's shown that Picard's flute has Clarketech abilities, and he can play it and be transported anywhere in space and time? No, it would destroy a sweet little story about human relationships.

Calypso was about the relationship between Craft and Zora. The little glimpses of the future of the Trekverse were just meant as flavor, not as plot. Indeed, my understanding is when Chabon came up with the story idea he picked 1,000 years in the future at random, and Kurtzman was like "sure, okay."

Trek is a framework which can be used to tell any story, which is part of its beauty. If everything in modern Trek is woven together to be part of a single story, the fictional world becomes much smaller and more tawdry.

Hey, I love Calypso. It one of the only 2 9/10s (my highest mark of the show) but yeah, no.

Further elaboration will not take anything away from that story.

Nor should thinking that Calypso is an actual Disco story should take away from 'tension' one experiences while in the moment of watching any Disco show. IMHO, if one can't suspend such disbelief while watching a TV show, then including Calypso in the timeline isn't the problem.

 

[Ruufio]

I had a theory about "Calypso". What if Airium, in her death throws, uploaded her conscience to Discovery. And that who Zora is!

I obviously meany consciousness not "conscience". Predictive text noob! (Where's the Picard facepalm giff when you need it)

 

[eschaton]

While I agree with you that I'd be happy for "Calypso" to stand elegantly on its own, I do think that if you're a writer for a space drama, you want to have every tool possible in your arsenal to generate suspense. One of the most basic ones is surely "ship in danger," but knowing that Discovery lasts for 1,000 years or more would tend to undermine that source of tension. I'd say that this is the kind of show that would entertain blowing up its main starship, but now whenever anything bad happens to it, my reaction is, "Eh, can't be that bad if it survives in "Calypso"! So I would think that the writers would want to get past the short as soon as they can.

If you use "outside the show" logic, Trek fails this almost 100% of the time. After all, we very well know that in any Star Trek show if the ship itself is threatened with destruction - or any individual member of the main cast is in mortal danger - some rabbit will be pulled out of the hat in the final act. You have to suspend disbelief to get into the suspense/life and death stakes portion of Star Trek.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

If you use "outside the show" logic, Trek fails this almost 100% of the time. After all, we very well know that in any Star Trek show if the ship itself is threatened with destruction - or any individual member of the main cast is in mortal danger - some rabbit will be pulled out of the hat in the final act. You have to suspend disbelief to get into the suspense/life and death stakes portion of Star Trek.

I agree. After the cold opening of TNG: Cause and Effect, I assumed they (and the ship) would somehow be OK, but that did not change my enjoyment of the episode.

 

[pst]

I don't feel any compelling need to tie Star Trek: Discovery into the "Calypso" Short. It was an intriguing and touching piece of science fiction in a Trek setting. But to subvert an entire two season's worth of story and setting is not worth it to me.

Let "Calypso" be. And don't worry about "syncing DSC up to canon" simply because a few vocal crazies who take this shit way too seriously. Fuck, just tell good Trek stories with good characters. The show has done well thus far, I don't see why any drastic change is viewed as needed or desired.

this.

every time i come on this board i'm like "stop trying to make calypso happen".

(actually it's starting to look more and more like it might, but i think i like it better as a something to ponder than something i need explained to me.)

 

[Lord Garth]

Just to be 100% clear: If the second season doesn't tie into "Calypso" I won't be like, "Oh no! It doesn't tie in!" That won't be my reaction at all. I'm only trying to anticipate where I think the season will go.

 

[drt]

this.

every time i come on this board i'm like "stop trying to make calypso happen".

(actually it's starting to look more and more like it might, but i think i like it better as a something to ponder than something i need explained to me.)

I’m in the same boat - no one seems to think that “Runaway” or “The Escape Artist” needs inclusion this season but are fixated on “Calypso”.

However, if it does happen maybe the crew transfers to Enterprise and leaves her hidden for Mama Burnham to use as a base of operations in the future.

 

[XCV330]

I’m in the same boat - no one seems to think that “Runaway” or “The Escape Artist” needs inclusion this season but are fixated on “Calypso”.

However, if it does happen maybe the crew transfers to Enterprise and leaves her hidden for Mama Burnham to use as a base of operations in the future.

Calypso stands well on its own but i dont mind if it has some context. I dont think we'll ever meet Craft again, or maybe then that evolved version of Zora.

Runaway was fun, but in retrospect a missed opportunity. Could have used it to have learned more about Ariam. Escape Artist was just fun. Those two episodes were not really expanding out the trek universe too much whereas Calypso went to an era that is both poignant to the show but also barely visited.

 

[Succubint]

After watching that clip that Doc Mugatu linked to in the Paley Fest thread, I think I've finally found a Star Trek actor I actually want to meet in person. I've been to conventions before, but never really had any favorites that I've wanted to speak to face to face. Sonequa just seems like such a genuinely warm and inspiring person. I'd love to take my son along to meet her if she ever did a con near us. Oh heck, the whole cast seems pretty great. Doug Jones' little hand squeezes were adorable.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

There have been 4 incursions into the past where technology was left behind

1947: Quark crashed his shuttle in Roswell.
1967: The crash of the Timeship Aeon. Ties into Cronovorx and Voyager.
1986: Kirk and crew introduce transparent aluminum.
2063: Picard's crew fixes up the Phoenix.

I wonder though with Zephram being such a drunk whether someone slipped him the warp formula and plans and nudged him along.

Oh and love all the Short Treks