Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Nyotarules]

No more so than, say, any Japanese parent is abusing their children when they teach them to fit into Japanese culture for example. And given how talented and successful Burhnam ends up becoming as an adult, I'm not sure how he and Amanda can even be considered bad parents in general.

A Japanese child is raised to be Japanese, the clue is in the name. Burnham was not Vulcan but human, a human who deliberately represses their emotions is not considered emotionally healthy. It would be as bad as expecting Spock to act like a human boy and ignore his telepathic abilites and anything that makes him Vulcan.
Sarek bought Burnham to the house to teach Spock empathy, so he insults his wife and insults Burnham. Amanda put up with a lot of shit to stay married to him. He uses his children as social experiments to impress his racist peers? Look how great that worked out!
I love the character cos he is so flawed.

 

[BillJ]

I think, right now across one season and the seven episodes of season two, the most memorable thing for me has been Mia Kirshner's performance as Amanda. I can actually see her evolving into her TOS counterpart.

She has been amazing.

 

[Alan Roi]

A Japanese child is raised to be Japanese, the clue is in the name. Burnham was not Vulcan but human, a human who deliberately represses their emotions is not considered emotionally healthy. It would be as bad as expecting Spock to act like a human boy and ignore his telepathic abilites and anything that makes him Vulcan.
Sarek bought Burnham to the house to teach Spock empathy, so he insults his wife and insults Burnham. Amanda put up with a lot of shit to stay married to him. He uses his children as social experiments to impress his racist peers? Look how great that worked out!
I love the character cos he is so flawed.

Japanese are human just like the rest of us last time i looked. As for the rest? Well, I'll go by how people act and how they feel as opposed to projecting on them. Yes. Sarek has a lot of gradoise hopes for his kids. They don't turn out the way he hoped, but they still turned out pretty good and are clearly not victims in the least. And even though they know what Sarek hoped, neither Amanda nor Michael seem to behave as though Sarek ever 'insulted' them by bringing them together the family he has.

Yes his dreams of what his kids can be end up being a case of someone who dreams big time and fails big time. But I don't see any actual abuse going on and neither do any of the participants.

 

[XCV330]

Japanese are human just like the rest of us last time i looked. As for the rest? Well, I'll go by how people act and how they feel as opposed to projecting on them. Yes. Sarek has a lot of gradoise hopes for his kids. They don't turn out the way he hoped, but they still turned out pretty good and are clearly not victims in the least. And even though they know what Sarek hoped, neither Amanda nor Michael seem to behave as though Sarek ever 'insulted' them by bringing them together the family he has.

Yes his dreams of what his kids can be end up being a case of someone who dreams big time and fails big time. But I don't see any actual abuse going on and neither do any of the participants.

Children can and often do rise to expectations, whereas if they're just treated like amusements thinking that softness is affection, that will not do them any favors later. The examples of the latter are almost epidemic. Sarek and Amanda raised, if nothing else two extremely talented and well trained individuals. (leaving the Sybok discussion alone)

Not to say Sarek and Amanda didn't make mistakes. Who doesn't? But Sarek isn't at the "I need to take your parenting licence, sir" level of bad-dad that Worf resides in.

 

[BillJ]

But Sarek isn't at the "I need to take your parenting licence, sir" level of bad-dad that Worf resides in.

I think handing your kid over to Section 31 puts you in the same park as Worf.

 

[XCV330]

I think handing your kid over to Section 31 puts you in the same park as Worf.

ok you got me there

 

[Vger23]

Theory time

I think the next time we see L’Rell she’ll be on a D7, meeting with Discovery to discuss this new threat that Spock mentions in the trailers

If she shows up on a D7, there will be a fan outcry condemning the episode for being non-canon and horrifically written because the time from conceptualization ("Point of Light") to complete construction was not realistic.

It will be the same people who hated the S1 Klingon ship designs, BTW.

 

[Tuskin38]

Probably.

Interestingly, we haven’t been given any time frames yet for how long the season has been.

I’m sure with Star Trek level of technology, industrial replicators, ship construction could take only a few months.

 

[XCV330]

If she shows up on a D7, there will be a fan outcry condemning the episode for being non-canon and horrifically written because the time from conceptualization ("Point of Light") to complete construction was not realistic.

It will be the same people who hated the S1 Klingon ship designs, BTW.

I did not like the Season 1 Klingon ship designs, and I don't much care if they show a proper D7 this early. Fuller's Follies can be left in Season 1 and never revisited for all I care.

I just always assumed the previous Season 1 D7s were pretty much regular D7's under the skin with a lot of House-specific bling added on. Strip them down to a uniform condition, and there you have it.

 

[Tim Thomason]

It's possible that the D7 as a project was something that had been worked on by the House of Mo'Kai or T'Kuvma long before and it was only after hitting some funding issues that Chancellor L'Rell showed the concept to the High Council for expansion as an imperial fleet ship. They could be nearing completion of a working prototype.

As for Sarek, he brought Michael into his home to help teach Spock empathy. This tells me two things. 1) Spock, emulating full Vulcans, was repressing his emotions to an alarming degree and 2) Sarek felt that Spock needed a human friend who could share feelings and emotional bonds with.

Michael was already raised at a Human-Vulcan colony, so had no qualms with Vulcans. Sarek didn't want either of his two children to be raised as perfect Vulcans, at least until later. Michael's full-on Vulcan attitude on display in 2249 was probably not the intention, just something that she adapted of her own volition to survive on Vulcan.

Sarek wanted Spock to become more human, but instead, Spock made Michael more Vulcan. Amanda tried various things too, I'm sure, but children want to emulate other children. And in ShiKahr, the other children are annoying Vulcan brats who will bully anyone who has an ounce of humanity to them.

 

[Hey Missy]

I really do try hard to enjoy Discovery, especially in its second season, but certain aspects keep sending me into the Groan Zone:
- whenever the camera does a tilted closeup of Michael or any character when it's a melodramatic moment
- when a normal talking scene has 500 jump edits per second
- the fact that everyone talks like they're running on 2x speed because the writers try to cram five episodes into one (the worst offender was An Obol for Charon)
- Shazad Latif's "acting" this season
- Pike being a pushover

 

[DaveyNY]

Just perhaps, it really isn't all those things per say.
But more of a deep seated dislike for how many TV shows are made now-a-days?

The fault lies not in these Shows dear Missy, but in ourselves, that we are ruined by the past.

 

[Hey Missy]

Yeah, I'm just an old fogey living in the past who can't accept change, even though my generation (late millennial) is who current television trends appeal to.

 

[Nyotarules]

Japanese are human just like the rest of us last time i looked. As for the rest? Well, I'll go by how people act and how they feel as opposed to projecting on them. Yes. Sarek has a lot of gradoise hopes for his kids. They don't turn out the way he hoped, but they still turned out pretty good and are clearly not victims in the least. And even though they know what Sarek hoped, neither Amanda nor Michael seem to behave as though Sarek ever 'insulted' them by bringing them together the family he has.

Yes his dreams of what his kids can be end up being a case of someone who dreams big time and fails big time. But I don't see any actual abuse going on and neither do any of the participants.

Of course Japanese are humans, you expect then to act like aliens are something? Does Japanese culture forbid a child from smiling or laughing? Or do you consider whatever culture you come from the default one for all humans?
Sarek expects a young human girl in her early teens not to be affected by the questions about the Klingon raid that killed her parents? Yeah I call that emotional abuse.

 

[Alan Roi]

- when a normal talking scene has 500 jump edits per second

And which alternative reality are such such productions available to watch?

 

[Alan Roi]

Or do you consider whatever culture you come from the default one for all humans?
Sarek expects a young human girl in her early teens not to be affected by the questions about the Klingon raid that killed her parents?

You seem to think your culture is the default one for all humans. And if anything, from what we learned, Sarek aided Michael in dealing with the emotional attack that killed her parents, but it appears that helping a child overcome such trauma by offering them a way that actually works for them is considered 'abuse' according to some people.

 

[Nyotarules]

You seem to think your culture is the default one for all humans. And if anything, from what we learned, Sarek aided Michael in dealing with the emotional attack that killed her parents, but it appears that helping a child overcome such trauma by offering them a way that actually works for them is considered 'abuse' according to some people.

Raising a human child to be a Vulcan yeah that is abuse. And human forms of emotional expression should be the default for a human child. There is no evidence Sarek helped her get over that trauma, expecting her to repress her feelings is never a successful method for the human psyche. I suspect any help on that front came from Amanda.

 

[Alan Roi]

Yeah, I'm just an old fogey living in the past who can't accept change, even though my generation (late millennial) is who current television trends appeal to.

You know, this isn't the first time I've hear a young'un long for the "good old days". I find it very funny when they do.

 

[Alan Roi]

There is no evidence Sarek helped her get over that trauma,.

I have seen such evidence presented on Star Trek Discovery.

 

[Nyotarules]

You know, this isn't the first time I've hear a young'un long for the "good old days". I find it very funny when they do.

yeah life with no remote control, internet, tv streaming service and only three TV stations and no colour tv was a lot of fun.....