Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Lord Garth, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    The heroes don't know that.

    This is always an odd complaint to me. Of course, the universe isn't going to end, or Kirk isn't going to not win, the superhero saves the day, etc. Has that changed how people engage with stories? :shrug:
     
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  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suffered from the Mandela Effect. It's weird. I'm re-watching "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part I" and I could've sworn Michael's goodbye to Sarek and Amanda was in Part II. My mind jumbled the two parts together.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I think when you tell those kinds of stories, the ones where we know the heroes really aren't in danger, you're writing has to be really top notch. Which is where Discovery stumbles for me. I wanted more than a rehashed 80's B-movie plot to finish out the season.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Of course this is the case. I personally just don't object to this story just because the audience knows the heroes are not going to die. It's a rare piece in a franchise, like Star Trek, to be like "Hey, let's kill all the good guys!"
     
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  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Finally got through the end of "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II". First time I've seen it in three months. Can't believe it's been that long.

    So the seven signals, I wrote it down so I had it straight in my head:

    1) SD 1025.19 -- USS Hiawatha ("Brother")
    2) SD 1027.32 -- Terralysium ("New Eden")
    3) SD 1035.86 -- Kaminar ("The Sound of Thunder")
    4) SD 1048.7 -- Boreth ("Through the Valley of Shadows")
    5) SD 1050.8 -- Xahea ("Such Sweet Sorrow, Part I")
    6) SD 1050.8 -- USS Discovery / North Star ("Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II")
    7) SD 1201.7 -- USS Enterprise (End of "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II")
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There was an episode of Powerless, where Superman failed and Lois Lane died.

    So the superhero office comedy where this story is set erupted into a fanfare of joy and cheer, becuase they knew that "today" was now a cheat day, becuase of course every time the Toyman or Sports Master kills Lois lane, Superman goes back in time and saves her.

    Every damn time she dies.

    (Every other day?)

    So between "now" and when that happens, there were no consequences. They can do the worst things, and Superman rolls back the clock, and it's as if no one has done anything bad at all.

    "I always wanted to try heroin, and kill my other in law, so I guess now is as good a time as any."
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That's the exception not the rule.
     
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  8. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    How do they know he does it, then?
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In this case there was several hours between Lois' public funeral and Superman turning back time. In the movie, it was a mater of 1 hour, maybe less?

    One bad day, and...

     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  10. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    Right, but how do they know he 'always turns back time when Lois dies'. Every time he turns it back, there's no way for them to remember it happened.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Love?

    There is a moment of doubt when Superman turns up to Lois' funeral with a new girlfriend. Superman is not going to turn back time for his ex-girlfriend, so after acting like it was a cheat day few hours, they all panicked, and tried to amend all the stupid stuff that they're done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  12. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    Note that two of these signals come from the exact same place so it should really only be six signals simultaneously visible, yet they somehow managed to see seven (at the same time).
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Occupying the same point in space but not time? I mean, it is time travel shenanigans after all.
     
  14. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    I mean when they see the seven signals all at once, in the beginning. If two of them come from the same place they should only be able to see six.
     
  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When Discovery goes to the over side, they don't have to send a signal right from Terralysium. They can go juuuuuuust to the side of it. Riiiiiiiiight next to it. Then there are two signals in close proximity.

    Let's take care of this once and for all. I'll type the exact dialog at the end.

    EDIT: I just "love" CBSAA commercials... yadda, yadda, yadda, hurry up... Here we go... getting to the dialogue...

    Spock: You detected an anomaly, Captain?

    Pike: Number One's running it now but it looks like it's in the Beta Quadrant.

    Number One: That's correct, sir... And we have the location. 51,000 light years from the present position.

    Number One doesn't say Terralysium. So it can be near Terralysium and still work.

    Burnham said earlier she'd send a signal when she gets to the other side. But that doesn't have to be taken literally. They can end up at Terralysium, who knows what happens, and then they can send the signal later, at a different. Even a little later. At a place not too far away from Terralysium itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  16. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    We don’t know where they ended up yet other than the Beta Quadrant so there’s nothing to show that the seventh signal was sent from Terralysium
     
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  17. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    That doesn't work. At that distance, the two signals would be too close to corresponding to the map we got in the series, where the signals are a good angular distance from each other (several degrees) which in our case would translate to thousands of light years. It's a simple matter of geometry.

    No one says "Terralysium" but the distance plus the Beta quadrant clearly implies it. If you're reduced to minutia that stretches believability to make your case that means that you don't have much of one.
     
  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    See what Habs Fan said.

    Why do you keep resisting any explanation for anything? It seems as if you're not interested in giving the series any type of benefit of the doubt at all. You're too quick to say "It doesn't work". As a Disco Fan, I'd think you'd want to figure out a way to make it work, and then only say it doesn't work as a last resort instead of a first resort. Personally, if I say something doesn't work, it's because I exhausted all the other alternatives first.

    Besides that: geometry. 51,000 light years from wherever the Enterprise is can lead to anywhere. It doesn't have to be Terralysium at all. It just has to be 51,000 light years away and in the Beta Quadrant. Spock has faith that wherever they located the signal, it was from Discovery. And faith is one of the themes of the season, so it's a fitting way to end it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  19. SJGardner

    SJGardner Captain Captain

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    Well, the only thing we know is that the Discovery is in the Beta Quadrant and 51,000 light years away. With that amount of information, we can only conclude its position is somewhere along a circle with a radius of 51,000 light years and centered on the Enterprise, which is currently somewhere in the Alpha Quadrant. Even just the Beta Quadrant portion of that circle is a huge stretch of it. Seattle and Vancouver are both roughly 1,150 miles (~1,800 km) to the West-Southwest from Winnipeg in roughly the same direction, and they're not only 120 miles (~200 km) away from each other, they're in different countries. 51,000 light years away from the Enterprise in the Beta Quadrant can mean anything.
     
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  20. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    That's not coherent with what was said on this subject in the series. Plus one would think that if the signal WASN'T from Terralysium where Burnham (Micheal AND Gabrielle) explicitly said they were going to, there would be some signs of worries (among the crew of the enterprise) given that it is where they were expecting them to be. Pike, Spock and number one's demeanor clearly indicates that the signal comes exactly from where they were hoping it to be.