He precisely accepts that fate because it's the person he is.
Last edited:
Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
He precisely accepts that fate because it's the person he is.
Pike made his choice the moment he accepted the time crystal (if not long before, when he rededicated himself to the role of Starfleet captain after Talos IV). Whatever choices he makes from here on out will simply follow naturally from it—and more to the point, from the same underlying nature of his character which led him to make it in the 'first' place. Pike, however he might have come to be put in that position, always would have sacrificed himself to save those cadets, accepting whatever the consequences to him might be. If he had it to do all over again, so to speak, he would. And he will. It's fated, but it's all ultimately based on his own affirmed choices and values.
As to the properties of the crystal itself, there's probably a form of quantum entanglement at work. It strikes me as similar to how Burnham's mother is locked in to the "prison" of the apocalyptic future to which she is "anchored" by hers; she can change many things, but not the ultimate outcome, because all her own efforts are part of what bring it about. (And perhaps, this is also why Mudd may be doomed never to escape Stella?
)
-MMoM
As to the properties of the crystal itself, there's probably a form of quantum entanglement at work. It strikes me as similar to how Burnham's mother is locked in to the "prison" of the apocalyptic future to which she is "anchored" by hers; she can change many things, but not the ultimate outcome, because all her own efforts are part of what bring it about. (And perhaps, this is also why Mudd may be doomed never to escape Stella?
)-MMoM
Last edited:
I'm glad the Dark Elf thing has become popular.
As for Pike, I think it might end up being a predestination paradox. In any case, Dark Elf Klingon was trying to dissuade Pike. Pike saw the most likely outcome of his future. He was too shocked for clear thought, but it might be that he'll end up causing the accident by trying to prevent it.
Will they walk away from him, or will he send them off with his benediction and blessing, assuring them that, whatever may be in store for them, they will be fulfilling their own destiny, just as he will be fulfilling his? "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's," so to speak? Don't worry about what is to come, just make the choices you feel are right, and let the chips fall where they may? We'll see...
-MMoM
I know. It seems to me that Pike's overall purpose in the narrative, though more fully-realized and integrated, has been much the same as McCoy's in "Encounter At Farpoint" (TNG) or Cochrane's in "Broken Bow" (ENT) or Spock Prime's in ST'09: to bestow the blessing of what has come before upon what is to be. It's symbolic.I was talking about the production staff.
-MMoM
I know it is symbolic. I just didn't need any kind of blessing from the production staff for TOS. It is probably more them blessing their own work.
That's what I meant. And that's what those other instances were, too. Yet, people seemed to appreciate the gesture nonetheless. And we've gotten much more than just that here. What more do you want?
-MMoM
In each instance people were involved with the prior productions in some form. McCoy (Roddenberry), Cochrane (Rick Berman), Spock Prime (Leonard Nimoy). For them to continue on with stories they were involved in, in some form makes their blessing mean a little bit more to me than folks who mostly weren't even alive when TOS was airing, much less working on the show.
A blessing from Kurtzman for an Abramsverse based show would carry far more weight for me, than him blessing a change to a story he had no part in.
This show was created by Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman. The former was involved in Voyager, and the latter in the Kelvin films.
-MMoM
Fuller was never involved in TOS, which he was trying to recreate for some odd reason. And I mentioned my thoughts on Kurtzman.
Trek is all one big story, in the end.Fuller was never involved in TOS, which he was trying to recreate for some odd reason. And I mentioned my thoughts on Kurtzman.
-MMoM
Well, no. It never really has been. They've tried to ride the coattails of each other, but they never were much of a shared universe. Trek was never like Star Wars or Marvel or other shared universes where the stories were designed to build on one another.
What you call riding the coattails, I call building the web. Every iteration of Trek has added to and built upon the rest, making for an overall richer whole, whether this was the primary goal of those involved or not.
As to comparisons to other franchises, I think Doctor Who is probably the most apt, being similarly both reverent and irreverent of itself at once.
-MMoM
Last edited:
Tenavik, his name is TENAVIK !I'm glad the Dark Elf thing has become popular.
As for Pike, I think it might end up being a predestination paradox. In any case, Dark Elf Klingon was trying to dissuade Pike. Pike saw the most likely outcome of his future. He was too shocked for clear thought, but it might be that he'll end up causing the accident by trying to prevent it.
(just a reminder for myself)
It sounds more Vulcan than Klingon.
I think there were fans who thought Valaris sounded like a Klingon name back in the day. And no doubt created elaborate fanfic and head canon to "explain" it.
Ironic, given Kim Cattrall's account of how the character (who was originally Saavik, of course) came to be named that in Starlog's Official Star Trek VI Movie Magazine, page 51: "She was initially named something else. I thought that they should go for a name that was steeped in mythology, so I suggested Eris, which is also the name of the goddess of strife. He [Meyer] came up with Valeris, because we wanted it to sound more Vulcan-like."I think there were fans who thought Valaris sounded like a Klingon name back in the day. And no doubt created elaborate fanfic and head canon to "explain" it.
-MMoM
I more or less think of all the spinoffs as just part of one long running show. For awhile it was on two times a week, that's all.
Plus, in the vision Pike didn’t save all of the cadets, while in the Menagerie it was implied all were rescued, seems like Pike perhaps accepts his own fate to save all of the cadets.
Similar threads
