Gene Coon

[Esteban]

Also, Bread and Circuses was co-written by Coon and GR. Anybody know who did what on that episode? I suspect that Coon's touch was the round-table dialogue about cultural relativity and the World Wars, while GR probably brought in the worship of the Sun/Son.

There's a great memo reprinted in one of the sacred texts (was it the David Alexander book?) from Gene Coon to the WGA, where he asks that John Knuebehl, who was originally credited with the B&C story (I think this survives to the Blish adaptation) be removed from the credits of that episode. He discusses in some detail how he and Gene Roddenberry totally "rebooted" the episode because Knuebhel was too sick to deliver, and that they deserved the sole credit.

He does not delineate who wrote what, but he gives Roddenberry equal mention.

My bet is that is was a Roddenberry idea, Coon did most of the scripting, except perhaps the Drucilla stuff ("they threw me a few curves") and the son up in the sky business.

Pure speculation on my part. It has been hinted that, since this was Coon's last episode (well, actually, he got credit for Private Little War which was filmed AFTER Journey to Babel, a Lucas outing--I never figured that out) some kind of bad blood arose between him and GR, possibly due to GR's "butting in" and taking credit (and payment) for B&C. But again, this is nothing but gossip.

I really, really, need to get a life.

 

[TiberiusK]

It may be gossip and speculation, but it's very insightful. I'll check my copy of Alexander for that. Thanks.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

A premise called "The Coming" that's arguably the basis for "Bread And Circuses" is in GR's original pitch document for "Star Trek."

 

[TiberiusK]

UWC Defiance said:
A premise that's arguably the basis for "Bread And Circuses" is in GR's original pitch document for "Star Trek."

Is that pitch in The Making of Star Trek?

 

[Plum]

Esteban said:
<SNIP!>

Who is this wise man, and why isn't he blue?

Thanx Esteban. Say, is that name in honour of one o' the backgrounders in Trek? I'm thinking the fellow from "Shore Leave".

 

[Sir Rhosis]

You might be interested...

In my synopses of scripts, I note the very little rewriting that Coon did. His first drafts (for example, "Errand of Mercy") are littledifferent from his final drafts. He pretty much worked out his problems in the story outlining stage and by the time he went to script he had it nailed. Most deletions are extraneous dialogue and regrouping of scenes to avoid money for new sets/extra shooting.

Click on the first link and find the episodes he wrote. I haven't done a write-up of the first draft of EoM, but I assure you the changes between it and the final are cosmetic.

He was writing for a Universal show called "It Takes A Thielf" when he did his "Lee Cronin" scripts.

Coon died one week after being diagnosed with a huge lung tumor and admitted to hospital, so I doubt GR was bugging him for script work. Robert Justman said in "Inside Star Trek" that Coon only asked for his wife to bring him some books to read.

Sir Rhosis

 

[TiberiusK]

Sir Rhosis said:
You might be interested...

In my synopses of scripts, I note the very little rewriting that Coon did. His first drafts (for example, "Errand of Mercy") are littledifferent from his final drafts. He pretty much worked out his problems in the story outlining stage and by the time he went to script he had it nailed. Most deletions are extraneous dialogue and regrouping of scenes to avoid money for new sets/extra shooting.

Click on the first link and find the episodes he wrote. I haven't done a write-up of the first draft of EoM, but I assure you the changes between it and the final are cosmetic.

He was writing for a Universal show called "It Takes A Thielf" when he did his "Lee Cronin" scripts.

Coon died one week after being diagnosed with a huge lung tumor and admitted to hospital, so I doubt GR was bugging him for script work. Robert Justman said in "Inside Star Trek" that Coon only asked for his wife to bring him some books to read.

Sir Rhosis

Thanks so much SR. I'll check it out.

Is there any documentation as to why Coon left Trek for Thief? I imagine he saw the writing on the wall and saw more opportunity with Thief. Did he continue to write for Trek S3 because he cared about the show, or was it simply another gig to bring in extra income?

 

[Sir Rhosis]

^^^Sorry, Tiberius, I don't know the answers to any of these questions.

Sir Rhosis

 

[trevanian]

I've always been of the opinion that Coon is WHY Trek worked, so for me he is absolutely the most important person associated with the show. I have a feeling that if Coon had been the showrunner on an Irwin Allen show, that it'd be about ten thousand times more memorable than any of those turned out to be. With TREK, you had a show that had already done some great stuff ... but under Coon's hand, the characters became people, so you enjoyed the ride even on dogshit episodes, and really loved those folks on the good ones.

As for the QUESTOR matter ... he delivered his draft just a few days before dying. I believe this is covered in an old STARLOG article on QUESTOR. I see Coon's touch all over QUESTOR, especially with the John Vernon character, an antagonist who is actually more appealing than the good guys, since he not only has his beliefs, he dies FOR them. I don't think QUESTOR would have worked as a series, but that's because you wouldn't have had Coon to balance GR up.

As far as I know, the Spock/McCoy stuff is mainly Coon's, not Fontana's. Take a look at the stuff we KNOW he rewrote, like the lab scene in TRIBBLES, and that certainly reflects this. I have a feeling lots of mid to late 2nd season shows reflect a pass through his typewriter, though I don't want to take anything away from J M Lucas, who did a pretty damned decent job. I see more of Fontana in Kirk/McCoy stuff or Spock alone, like THIS SIDE OF PARADISE.

Is "THE COMING" the original version of that other non-DOOMSDAY Spinrad story? The one Norman wrote for Milton Berle, which Spinrad had GR kill when Coon turned it into a comedy? (odd how Spinrad's material was supposed to attract big name stars, what with DOOMSDAY aimed at snaring Robert Ryan.)

 

[Nebusj]

trevanian said:
As far as I know, the Spock/McCoy stuff is mainly Coon's, not Fontana's.

[ Pause ... blinking ... processing ]
Hey, come to think of it, are there any good scenes of dramatic tension and conflict between Spock and McCoy that predate Gene Coon's arrival (which Memory Alpha says happened around ``Miri'')?

I'm trying to think of one, and while I can think of times when they disputed something -- like ``The Enemy Within'' -- but I can't think of them digging into one another.

 

[Botany Bay]

TiberiusK said:
Is there any documentation as to why Coon left Trek for Thief? I imagine he saw the writing on the wall and saw more opportunity with Thief. Did he continue to write for Trek S3 because he cared about the show, or was it simply another gig to bring in extra income?

I believe he was worn out - the pace of working on TOS was relentless plus he had to deal with rising tensions between Nimoy and Shatner.

Looming cancellation may have been a factor too - they all thought they were gone after "Deadly Years".

There is a persistent rumour that Coon and GR fought like cats and dogs over the script for "Bread and Circuses" - I've always wondered why it was the second last episode aired from that season even though it was filmed months before.

Nate
(Needs a life too)

 

[NathanielM]

*Raises right eyebrow like Mr Spock.* Hardly.

 

[TiberiusK]

trevanian said:
I've always been of the opinion that Coon is WHY Trek worked, so for me he is absolutely the most important person associated with the show. I have a feeling that if Coon had been the showrunner on an Irwin Allen show, that it'd be about ten thousand times more memorable than any of those turned out to be. With TREK, you had a show that had already done some great stuff ... but under Coon's hand, the characters became people, so you enjoyed the ride even on dogshit episodes, and really loved those folks on the good ones.

As for the QUESTOR matter ... he delivered his draft just a few days before dying. I believe this is covered in an old STARLOG article on QUESTOR. I see Coon's touch all over QUESTOR, especially with the John Vernon character, an antagonist who is actually more appealing than the good guys, since he not only has his beliefs, he dies FOR them. I don't think QUESTOR would have worked as a series, but that's because you wouldn't have had Coon to balance GR up.

As far as I know, the Spock/McCoy stuff is mainly Coon's, not Fontana's. Take a look at the stuff we KNOW he rewrote, like the lab scene in TRIBBLES, and that certainly reflects this. I have a feeling lots of mid to late 2nd season shows reflect a pass through his typewriter, though I don't want to take anything away from J M Lucas, who did a pretty damned decent job. I see more of Fontana in Kirk/McCoy stuff or Spock alone, like THIS SIDE OF PARADISE.

Is "THE COMING" the original version of that other non-DOOMSDAY Spinrad story? The one Norman wrote for Milton Berle, which Spinrad had GR kill when Coon turned it into a comedy? (odd how Spinrad's material was supposed to attract big name stars, what with DOOMSDAY aimed at snaring Robert Ryan.)

I don't think there is any question that Fontana was responsible for developing Spock's character background, internal conflict, etc. But, you make a really interesting point about the bickering, which was especially there in some of Gene Coon's work like Bread and Circuses.

Great insight, thank you.

 

[TiberiusK]

aussie said:

TiberiusK said:
Is there any documentation as to why Coon left Trek for Thief? I imagine he saw the writing on the wall and saw more opportunity with Thief. Did he continue to write for Trek S3 because he cared about the show, or was it simply another gig to bring in extra income?

I believe he was worn out - the pace of working on TOS was relentless plus he had to deal with rising tensions between Nimoy and Shatner.

Looming cancellation may have been a factor too - they all thought they were gone after "Deadly Years".

There is a persistent rumour that Coon and GR fought like cats and dogs over the script for "Bread and Circuses" - I've always wondered why it was the second last episode aired from that season even though it was filmed months before.

Nate
(Needs a life too)

I've always been skeptical of GR's contribution to Bread and Circuses, considering how distant he had grown even in season 2, except for trying to use Trek to sell another pilot with Assignment: Earth.

Then again, it's easy to see GR's handprint on the script when Kirk sleeps with a slave girl assigned by her masters to pleasure him. LOL.

Didn't Justman and Solow claim that those rumors were false, or at least his widow didn't remember him saying an unkind word about GR.

 

[Saxman1]

Tallguy said:
There need to be more threads bashing Alternative Factor.

Agreed -at least "Spock's Brain" can be viewed as campy fun. "Alternative Factor" is simply unwatchable ("Oh no - not YOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!").

 

[Esteban]

Hey, come to think of it, are there any good scenes of dramatic tension and conflict between Spock and McCoy that predate Gene Coon's arrival (which Memory Alpha says happened around ``Miri'')?

I was pondering along similar lines and all I could recall was the final scene from "Mudd's Women", where McCoy says "kind of gets you right here", thumping his chest, then says to Spock, "oh, in your case, it's more like here", thumping his side.

That's a Roddenberryism, I think, as he uses it again in Private Little War ("good thing his heart's where his liver should be, etc") and in Omega Glory ("He has no heart!!!")

Although it's not bickering, it's teasing. After that, we don't really see it again (I don't count Miri since they were all supposed to be cranky) until what, Conscience of the King (Bones having his drinky-poo). Is that where we get the quote "mathematically perfect brain-waves?", later reused in Requiem for Methuselah?

Anyway, the Spock-McCoy tension really doesn't get going until the second season, culminating I would say in the Bread & Circuses and Immunity Syndrome (I always thought the Tribbles "I like them better than I like you" line was overbaked, so I discount it.)

I ramble. I think I can buy that Coon was the one who originated the concept of pitting Spock and McCoy against each other. Other writers picked up on it, and hey, it made for great formulaic tags.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Saxman1 said:

Tallguy said:
There need to be more threads bashing Alternative Factor.

Agreed -at least "Spock's Brain" can be viewed as campy fun. "Alternative Factor" is simply unwatchable ("Oh no - not YOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!").

Oh no, you two stop right there, that's another stupid episode I like

For another thread perhaps, this one is too interesting to derail.

 

[Tallguy]

Heh. Sorry. Wow, there ARE no universally hated eps, are there?

Interesting seeing where the overlooked Trek DNA came from. I always took the Spock / McCoy feud as a given. Now I'll have to look at it a little closer. Is there a chart? Can I find a chart? Someone do a chart.

 

[Plum]

Tallguy said:
Heh. Sorry. Wow, there ARE no universally hated eps, are there?

<SNIP!>

Turnabout Intruder.

Janice Lester was nuts! But it was fun to watch Shatner wiggle his arse like that.

 

[TiberiusK]

Tallguy said:
Heh. Sorry. Wow, there ARE no universally hated eps, are there?

Interesting seeing where the overlooked Trek DNA came from. I always took the Spock / McCoy feud as a given. Now I'll have to look at it a little closer. Is there a chart? Can I find a chart? Someone do a chart.

Are you making fun of my geeky TOS chart?