He also piloted the ship. So, he moved from CONN as an ensign to transporter chief as a lieutenant.
The he got promoted to chief.
Garrett Wang
- Thread starter Athena28
- Start date
- Status
The he got promoted to chief.
You beat me to it, @Farscape One .
When discussing promotion, I generally ignore O'Brien... since the Trek franchise took years deciding what rank he was, it's just not practical to do anything else.
Regardless, the argument that there was little room for promotion on the ship was demonstrably false. If you count Wesley's ascension from acting ensign to full ensign as a promotion (and I do), ten characters were promoted without changing jobs. And, the argument that a main character had to be an ensign is likewise false. TNG and DS9 were ensign-free for years at a time. Given that neither the argument given to Garrett nor the argument given on screen hold any water whatsoever, and also that this was obviously pretty important to the showrunners (enough for them to basically tell their viewers to piss off, when they complained)... well, the theory that this was a deliberate effort to humiliate the actor suddenly makes a lot more sense.
I see no reason to come up with such a scenario at all.
And I don't care if it would be Gene's vision or not. I like gene Roddenberry because he gave us Star Trek but I don't see him as a god or some oracle. He had his flaws too.
When it cme to data, there might have been a problem. Promoting him would have made him equal to Riker and I wonder if there is room for morwe than one Commander. OK, we had Commander MacDuff (who is also on my restoring list
) but that was only for one episode. In such a case, it would have been necessary for Riker or Data to be transferred to another ship.When it comes to the other characters you have mentioned, they were recurring characters which may have been a reason for them being overlooked, But when it comes to harry, he was one of the main characters on Voyager.
We forgetting his stint as a lieutenant
This brings us back to the question about O'Briens dark secret. Was he actually demoted?
I'm quoting a post which I wrote in the DS9 forum two years ago:
I've been looking at Miles O'Brien's career in Starfleet and I get the impression that he must have been demoted at some time in his career. I've been trying to sort it out with the help of Memory Alpha but haven't found the definite answer yet.
In the first season of TNG he's actually an ensign with one pip.
In season 2 of TNG he has two pips on his collar and is adressed by Riker as Lieutenant.
He wears the pips of Lieutenant until season 6 of TNG when he all of a sudden is wearing a single hollow pip which obviously is the rank of a Warrant Officer!
He continues to wear that single hollow pip during the first three seasons of DS9, actually joking that "if Nog graduates from Starfleet Academy, I must adress him as Sir".
In season 4 of DS9 he gets a new rank insignia, reminding of a Sergeant's insignia.
So what did poor Miles do to be demoted? Did he spike Picards Earl Grey with Irish Whiskey? Or did he reveal Riker having an affair with some married female Ensign?
And why that new rank insignia in Hippocratic Oath. Was he demoted to Sergeant by Sisko for throwing some tool at Jake when Jake failed to obey him or what? Or did he cough in the wrong tune on a Friday morning briefing?
Miles, Miles, Miles, what have you done?
Giving Data a promotion to full Commander would not make his position equal to Riker. He could still be that rank but remain Second Officer/Operations Officer.
(As an example, Chakotay was a Lt. Cmdr., but his position was XO. When Tuvok got promoted, he held the same rank but was still subordinate to Chakotay because of his position.)
(As an example, Chakotay was a Lt. Cmdr., but his position was XO. When Tuvok got promoted, he held the same rank but was still subordinate to Chakotay because of his position.)
And remember, Deanna, Pulaski, and Crusher were full commanders. If they could have three pips and still be on the Enterprise with Riker, I see no problem with Data doing the same. Indeed, given that he is higher in the line of command than they are (you didn't see Crusher or Troi in charge in "Gambit"), it would make more sense!
Medical rank is given out differently.
They have to be able to order other officers to shut up and take their medicine, and ignore orders from subordinates to empty the drug cabinet.
Bashir started as a lieutenant, so all Doctors probably start as Lieutenants.
All rank means is how many subordinates you can order around simultaneously without having an anxiety attack. So its a question of how large is your surgery, and how much staff do you have under you, which should reflect your rank. They can't ever give you more staff than they think you can handle, and what they think of you, is your rank.
They never said it, but Bev was probably promoted to Captain or Admiral to run Starfleet Medical on Earth, which had a staff of thousands if not millions (Including porters, nurses, admin, security and cleaners), if Starfleet medical wasn't every Hospital on earth interconnected by the transporter, but Wesley was so important to her, that she suffered an embarrassing demotion to be with her darling boy during his wonder years.
Last edited:
Yeah, they didn't really think that one through. They had fired Gates McFadden, so they wanted a convenient excuse for her character leaving, and a sizable promotion was the best way. It didn't occur to them that they might need to bring her back.
My head canon is that she was better as a physician than an administrator, so they quietly replaced her, without prejudice.
They're probably ensigns when they graduate Academy, but have to undergo additional training. Upon completing it, they are likely due for a rank up. Nurses, like Ogawa, are just posted as ensigns, though they can of course be promoted, as we saw in TNG's "Lower Decks".
Even as a ○● lieutenant, he had final authority in medical matters. As seen in "Defiant", where he ordered an overworked Major Kira off duty, and reminded her that not even Sisko could overrule him.
Nurse Chapel became Doctor Chapel.
That could be a peculiar thing, or that could be a typical right of passage that every doctor has to go through, scrubbing millions of bedpans, before they get their full medical license.
Starfleet Academy + Medical School = 11 years.
There might also be multiple paths, based on the talents and needs of the individual.
In one of the books, Simon Tarses was revealed to have remained in Starfleet following the events of "The Drumhead". At some point, he returned to Earth and completed Starfleet Academy's medical program, emerging as an officer and a doctor.
Because it reflects real life. The constant avoidance of real life and its problems only serves to distance Star Trek from the humanity it's supposedly about.
The point is that I don't want too much of real life because sometimes I have enough of "real life" in the Gray Universe.
Which is a reason why i like to watch series like Star Trek, NCIS, CSI and others.
I want my favorite series close to "real life" but spare me the process of aging and dying if it isn't absolutely necessary for the storytelling.
What I honestly think is that it began as a simple desire for status quo, they wanted someone as 'the ensign who just began his Starfleet career' and were unwilling to consider the fact that realistically he should gradually mature (and move on in life, even if perhaps he couldn't move on from his post). Because he was in essence a bit of a background character and they wanted to spend no more development on him than on, say, Chakotay.
Then, at some point they seem to have decided to make a point of him not being promoted by even having the character comment on it himself repeatedly. Can't tell whether that had anything to do with punishing Wang, or with 'this is our series and we can do whatever we want to do whether others disagree with us or not!', or both.
So I think I'm in camp 3, but I'm not prepared to make a huge issue out of it. But we all have different points of sensitivity; I got very irked by how they treated Kes in Fury, for example (though not nearly as badly as someone else here).
Last edited:
It is necessary because Trek is about the human adventure, not the human stuff I only want to see series.
That was his cousin Conn officer Noname O'Brien.He also piloted the ship. So, he moved from CONN as an ensign to transporter chief as a lieutenant.
The he got promoted to chief.
Depends on why. I mean, Janeway dies at the end of "Year of Hell" and it's
ing awesome!So they are guilty of, at best, a staggering level of incompetence.
There's no proof, of course... but why would they be as determined as they were? They put more effort into making up ludicrous reasons why Harry was still an ensign than it would have taken to just have Janeway slap a pip on his collar and be done with it.
Yeah, that was pretty appalling as well. But are people still treating Kes like a pathetic loser, 30 years after the fact?
It was either downright sloppy writing and thinking or some sort of revenge against Wang for something he might have said and done, like coughing in the wrong tune on a Friday morning.
Considering how they acted against those fans who wanted kes back and the JC-ers, I wouldn't be surprised if they made wang's character like something of a pathetic loser just as some sort of punishment.
Not to mention that they seem to have long tentacles. There obviously was some crap going on here and there but no one, except maybe Beltran and Wang dare to criticize them.
And yes, I'm in camp 3 too but most of my concern is for another character.
I really wonder who that can be. Are there really such annoying people here?
Hmmm........no!Depends on why. I mean, Janeway dies at the end of "Year of Hell" and it's
However, I can live with it because I knew that she would be restored bnefore the episode was over. The same with Harry in Deadlock.
maybe, but sometimes I have a feeling that option 2 is the real reason, which I state in a comment above.
Yes, it makes one wonder.
I mean, somewhere in season 3 or 4, they should have started thinking about it and just given Harry a promotion. They could have come up with some extraordinary thing he did while saving the ship and promoted him for that.
Fortunately, they don't.
But the reason for that might be that they did all they could to make people forget here before they brought her back to destroy her and kill her off in that insulting excuse for a Star Trek episode.
Note that I haven't tested this but if yo do a Google picture search on "Voyager crew", I'm sure that if six or seven pictures of the crew shows up, Kes will only be in one of those.
And honestly, I would rather see Kes being remember as a loser than what they made her in that episode.
In fact, she actually become a pathetic loser too at the end of the episode.
To be fair, before I started frequenting Trek related sites as this one, it never even occurred to me people might view him as a loser. So it might also be something of a negative meme that gets perpetuated through Trek communities (with, indeed, some seeds in the series' material).
Did it for you. First 20 images were...
Featuring Seven: 14
Featuring Kes: 5
Featuring both: 1
Indeed. But if they weren't willing to actively come up with a pretext, just have him begin "Night" with a hollow pip on his collar. Geordi, Dax, and Bashir all were promoted without on-screen ceremony.
I really wonder who that can be. Are there really such annoying people here?
I've heard of that person as well... also heard rumors of a guy who obsesses about a certain ensign not getting promoted... but hey, they're probably both just urban legends.
Why else would they cling to it the way they did, like a toddler with someone else's teddy bear?
And why else is it still going on today? I mean, they're perfectly happy to chase down an actress who hasn't performed in almost three decades... but they can't find work for a former regular cast member who'd been a part of the Trek community for years. Aside, of course, from "assigning" him to a series that gets its plug pulled days after the fact.
Watching a few SFDebris videos will cure you of that.
EDIT IN: How to Vastly Improve Voyager in Three Easy Wardrobe Changes
1. Give Seven a blue Starfleet uniform.
2. Give Neelix a gold Starfleet uniform.
3. Put a hollow pip on Harry's collar.
Last edited:
I made a similar contro and got a similar reault. By checking the pictures I saw at first sight without scrolling I got 13 pictures:
Seven 11
Kes 2
Both 1
I'm actually surprised that kes showed up in 3 photos. I would have expected 0 or 1.
I agree on that.
Most likely!I've heard of that person as well... also heard rumors of a guy who obsesses about a certain ensign not getting promoted... but hey, they're probably both just urban legends.
It's really weird actually.
But as I wrote before, they seem to have long tentacles and therefore no one dares to criticize their actions.
But actually scary if they continue to punish the actor for something which happened almost 30 years ago.
I haven't watched SFDebris before, I did a quick look today but didn't find that many Voyager episodes.
But what I know from my own experience from back then, Harry did come out as the weakest character in the series, although I never disliked him.
He had some good moments here and there but most of all he was "young Ensign" Kim and unfortunately some sort of "whipping boy" of the series. After a while he actually started to look like a loser or a second hand chharacter to me.
I found him much better in the Voyager books from that era where he was actually doing something so the character definitely had potential.
The sad thing is that if we compare him with a character like Tim McGee in NCIS who developed from some sort of clumsy nerd from the start but developed to a reliable and skilled field agent and Nog in DS9 who had a terrific development, nothing of that happened to Harry.
To be honest, there weren't much character development for Chakotay, Tuvok, Torres, Paris and Neelix in seasons 4-7 either but due to Harry's already low status among those characters, tehy could at least have given him some development and redemption.
Slug what now?
That's how he got his start was writing Voyager reviews, then posting videos on Blip, the Youtube and then his own website. Here's a link to his Caretaker page on his website.
Yes, he does the whole "poor dumb Harry" joke quite a bit, and it's clear that Harry often gets the short end of the stick in the plot. Which is just strange given that he is a department head, and shown to be capable.
- Status
Similar threads
