Garrett Wang

[Oddish]

NGL, I'd get a nice kick out of seeing the irrepressibly optimistic Harry Kim become a S31 agent.

Of course, "Timeless" showed that Harry has some 'potential' for darkness if you push the right buttons.

True. And given that he had his captain (who he admired) just demolish his Starfleet career for no good reason, and Starfleet condoned it by not just plain ordering her to give him the rank bump be deserved... that would make anyone cynical enough to join Area 31... uh, I mean Section 51... I mean Sector 351... I mean the elephant who tried to use the telephant... I mean... never mind.

They'd never let Harry in. Too much whining about getting to see his family.

He's the perfect candidate. Classic Federation junior achiever, good to his parents, Academy grad with honors, plays in the local jazz band... he's like the nice boy down the street who mows your yard or babysits your kids. Who's going to suspect him of anything nefarious?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kim can't be in Starfleet and local government simultaneously.

Where would he do the least harm?

 

[Tosk]

Kim can't be in Starfleet and local government simultaneously.

Where would he do the least harm?

Teaching the clarinet.

 

[Farscape One]

You know where Kim would probably do the most good with the widest possible range?

Working at Utopia Planetia or another shipyard. He clearly has great design skills. Along with Seven, he created Astrometrics. Even in an alternate timeline, less than a year out of the Academy, he helped design a brand new, apparently better runabout and would likely have been made a Lt. j.g.

The Starfleet captains and crews get a LOT of credit for the miracles they perform in protectimg the Federation... and they should. But without sturdy, well-designed ships... those captains and crews can't do a damn thing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know where Kim would probably do the most good with the widest possible range?

Working at Utopia Planetia or another shipyard. He clearly has great design skills. Along with Seven, he created Astrometrics. Even in an alternate timeline, less than a year out of the Academy, he helped design a brand new, apparently better runabout and would likely have been made a Lt. j.g.

The Starfleet captains and crews get a LOT of credit for the miracles they perform in protectimg the Federation... and they should. But without sturdy, well-designed ships... those captains and crews can't do a damn thing.

Actually...

It's timey-whimey fraud.

We Saw an Astrometrics Lab on Enterprise E. In 2063 Future Borg sent Instructions on how to build an Astrometrics Lab to the Delta Quadrant, that centuries Later was indexed into Seven of Nine's brain, instructions she followed when asked to upgrade Stellar Cartography on Voyager during season 6.



It's more messed up that this above clearly now, since there have been many Astrometrics labs on/during the following prequel series Enterprise, because Berman is a nonce who does not understand that you can't put shit into play before it's invented, and think that you are good at your job.

 

[Farscape One]

Actually...

It's timey-whimey fraud.

We Saw an Astrometrics Lab on Enterprise E. In 2063 Future Borg sent Instructions on how to build an Astrometrics Lab to the Delta Quadrant, that centuries Later was indexed into Seven of Nine's brain, instructions she followed when asked to upgrade Stellar Cartography on Voyager during season 6.



It's more messed up that this above clearly now, since there have been many Astrometrics labs on/during the following prequel series Enterprise, because Berman is a nonce who does not understand that you can't put shit into play before it's invented, and think that you are good at your job.

Actually...

First, Janeway asked for the upgrade in the early part of season 4, "REVULSION". (Well, Chakotay asked Kim to work with Seven on this.) It's first appearance on VOY was "YEAR OF HELL".

Second, I didn't mean Harry Kim invented an Astrometrics lab. I said he was good as designing things, and used that as an example. You don't have to be an inventor to be a good designer... just good at improving what already exists.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Actually...

First, Janeway asked for the upgrade in the early part of season 4, "REVULSION". (Well, Chakotay asked Kim to work with Seven on this.) It's first appearance on VOY was "YEAR OF HELL".

Second, I didn't mean Harry Kim invented an Astrometrics lab. I said he was good as designing things, and used that as an example. You don't have to be an inventor to be a good designer... just good at improving what already exists.

I don't remember when anything happened any more.

 

[Oddish]

This exchange is a classic example of the mental legerdemain used to manipulate viewer opinions of this particular character. All canonical evidence suggests that Harry is highly intelligent, quite hardworking, and eminently capable. And yet, because of a mean-spirited action by the showrunners, they've got a large proportion of the fans convinced that he's an idiot, almost on the level of the eponymous character in "The Trouble With Edward".

 

[Tosk]

I'd argue that you're mistaking mild mocking for misunderstanding.

 

[Guy Gardener]

This exchange is a classic example of the mental legerdemain used to manipulate viewer opinions of this particular character. All canonical evidence suggests that Harry is highly intelligent, quite hardworking, and eminently capable. And yet, because of a mean-spirited action by the showrunners, they've got a large proportion of the fans convinced that he's an idiot, almost on the level of the eponymous character in "The Trouble With Edward".

"Fallout from the Eugenics War"

Everyone is twice as smart, strong and fast as their contemporaries from the mid 20th century.

He's book smart, cool, but he frenched a cow.

 

[Oddish]

He's book smart, cool, but he frenched a cow.

Ok, first of all, he did not French the cow. Frenching involves tongues. Harry merely smooched the cow. Second, it was accidental, and it wasn't even a real cow anyway. And third, if we're talking dumb decisions, "Non Sequitur" provides a much better example. As in, "gee, I can choose between an awesome looking house in San Francisco with a gorgeous fiancee, lieutenant pips on my collar and Vulcan mocha every morning. Or, I can spend seven years as an ensign on a tin can half a zettameter from home, eating Neelix's leola root stew, taking cold sonic showers, and dying a few times. Which am I gonna choose?"

 

[Farscape One]

Ok, first of all, he did not French the cow. Frenching involves tongues. Harry merely smooched the cow. Second, it was accidental, and it wasn't even a real cow anyway. And third, if we're talking dumb decisions, "Non Sequitur" provides a much better example. As in, "gee, I can choose between an awesome looking house in San Francisco with a gorgeous fiancee, lieutenant pips on my collar and Vulcan mocha every morning. Or, I can spend seven years as an ensign on a tin can half a zettameter from home, eating Neelix's leola root stew, taking cold sonic showers, and dying a few times. Which am I gonna choose?"

To be fair to "NON SEQUITUR" and Kim's choice, it helps establish a character trait that is used to excellence in "TIMELESS"... survivor's guilt.

 

[Akiraprise]

This exchange is a classic example of the mental legerdemain used to manipulate viewer opinions of this particular character. All canonical evidence suggests that Harry is highly intelligent, quite hardworking, and eminently capable. And yet, because of a mean-spirited action by the showrunners, they've got a large proportion of the fans convinced that he's an idiot, almost on the level of the eponymous character in "The Trouble With Edward".

Oh, that's not true. Harry was a good shit. Clever and hard working and likable enough. He even got laid a few times and told his boss off when she got huffy about it. That's better development than a lot of other Trek characters! What's been blown out of proportion, mostly by you on this particular board as the anointed "Defender of Kim," is his lack of getting a pip on his fictional collar and their being some conspiracy behind it. In universe he was more than worthy but due to Voyager's unique circumstance Janeway was tight with the promos. Yes, I know...Tom. But other than he and Tuvok who else got promoted after the Maquis field promotions were doled out in S1? Out of universe Wang pissed off the bosses and they decided to fuck with him a bit. That's pretty much the long and short of it.

 

[Oddish]

He even got laid a few times and told his boss off when she got huffy about it. That's better development than a lot of other Trek characters!

Mayweather, maybe. Or Ziyal.

What's been blown out of proportion, mostly by you on this particular board as the anointed "Defender of Kim," is his lack of getting a pip on his fictional collar and their being some conspiracy behind it.

Please, I'm merely the SELF-APPOINTED Defender of Kim. Unlike Alixus, I have never felt any divine hand on my shoulder. At least not while discussing Star Trek promotion issues.

And in any case, this is the appropriate topic for discussion of the subject. So you have nothing to complain about.

In universe he was more than worthy but due to Voyager's unique circumstance Janeway was tight with the promos. Yes, I know...Tom. But other than he and Tuvok who else got promoted after the Maquis field promotions were doled out in S1?

Harry was the only main cast member who wasn't either (a) promoted at some point, (b) rank-less, or (c) about as high as they could get, rank-wise.

Out of universe Wang pissed off the bosses and they decided to with him a bit. That's pretty much the long and short of it.

In other words, they conspired against him. And given that he's the only VOY character whose fate has not been revealed, the result of their actions is still in effect.

 

[Tosk]

What a horrible punishment. "We're gonna keep you around, pay you a fabulous salary for seven years, guarantee you pretty much easy money for life at conventions...BUT your character isn't going to get a promotion. Ha! Suck on that!"

Harry was the only main cast member who wasn't either (a) promoted at some point, (b) rank-less, or (c) about as high as they could get, rank-wise.

That's a lot of provisos to make him seem left out.

 

[Ragitsu]

They could have been real mean and changed his character's name to "Hairy Kim" in (some) credits.

 

[Oddish]

What a horrible punishment. "We're gonna keep you around, pay you a fabulous salary for seven years, guarantee you pretty much easy money for life at conventions...BUT your character isn't going to get a promotion. Ha! Suck on that!"

I would more say what a puerile act of spite... "Because of that stupid People magazine article, we can't fire you, we have to pay you, and you'll get to make easy money at the conventions... but we're going to make sure your character is the butt of jokes from now to forever."

QUOTE: "They could have been real mean and changed his character's name to "Hairy Kim" in (some) credits."

Or Karry Himm.

 

[Ragitsu]

Odds are, groups of gals who gandered at People magazine wanted to Marry Him. Not a bad tradeoff.

 

[Lynx]

What a horrible punishment. "We're gonna keep you around, pay you a fabulous salary for seven years, guarantee you pretty much easy money for life at conventions...BUT your character isn't going to get a promotion. Ha! Suck on that!"

That's a lot of provisos to make him seem left out.

At least better than to fire him all of a sudden with lame excuses like "oh, we couldn't write for the character".

 

[Tosk]

At least better than to fire him all of a sudden with lame excuses like "oh, we couldn't write for the character".

They could only use that excuse once, otherwise there'd be hardly any main cast left.