Garrett Wang

[Lynx]

I felt that Trek at that time had been pretty much been saturated with the 24th century after three 7-year series, and that choosing a different era was a good idea. I just don't think ENT was all that it could have been.

Personally, I think that it was a big mistake. They had really developed the original Star trek universe in series like TNG, DS9 and VOY and then all of a sudden they throw it away and we got a series which didn't even look as a pre-TOS series more like an "after Voyager" seires but with bland characters and dull stories.

Even worse that we have got all those "TOS-wannabee" stuff in recent movies and series.

I actually love TOS but the attempts to create "retro-TOS" series and movies have just been bad.

Not to mention that I miss the 24th century with all the species and characters from that era, not to mention all loose ends which could have been followed up.

I still remember when they started to debate what would come after VOY. There were some interesting suggestions, like one about a Starfleet Academy series which looked interesting.

Then there was also a suggestion about a pre-TOS series which was discussed.

"Oh no, not that one!" i thought.

Imagine my despair and irritation when they did choose that option.

I do think that I started to realize that all the fun was over. And it was!

 

[fireproof78]

I do think that I started to realize that all the fun was over. And it was!

While TOS will always be my favorite series and I love Discovery, Kelvin Trek and SNW, I have to agree that the going in to the past of the future was more of misstep than I originally thought. ENT demonstrated the utter lack of awareness around how TOS was made, what made it special, and attempted to infuse TNG era sensibilities in an era that wasn't very appropriate to have in there. There was a very safe vibe to ENT, much like VOY, that precluded anything new or information around TOS.

Which is unfortunately where culture has gone in terms of media. Leaning on the past, going to prequels to unpack these different ideas sounds really interesting (Star Wars prequels, Batman Begins, Gotham, etc) until you get there and realize how constricted you potentially are. It takes a bit more flexibility by fans and authors alike to actually play with it in a way that is satisfactory to many.

I still find fun in ENT and current series, but it is not the fun of TOS, and never will be.

 

[Ragitsu]

Arguably, Star Trek died after 2001.

 

[at Quark's]

Not to mention that I miss the 24th century with all the species and characters from that era, not to mention all loose ends which could have been followed up.

Oh, it's not that I think the 24th century is dead, or anything like that. There are still lots of stories that could be told, new series that could be made, revisiting the 24th century and pickup from where TNG/DS9/VOY left off. I wouldn't be opposed to a new 24th century series right now.

I just think that back then, for that moment after 3 7-year series, there had been enough 24th century Trek and we could do with a (temporary) change of scenery.

 

[Oddish]

ENT's worst element wasn't that it was different. It was that it refused to be different: the NX-01 had a 24th century transporter, 24th century weapons set, and a lot of plotlines that would have done just fine in the 24th century, most notably the temporal cold war. And as cute as Porthos was, the NX-01 should have been a decidedly spartan ship that had no capacity for hauling pooches.

 

[at Quark's]

If no capacity for hauling pooches, then probably no Movie Nights and such either.

One of the touches I did like was that the ship had a somewhat more 'claustrophobic' and submarine feel than either the TOS or the TNG Enterprise.

 

[Oddish]

If no capacity for hauling pooches, then probably no Movie Nights and such either.

Movie nights were Ok... USN ships have those. Pretty sure they don't have pets, though. Maybe if Porthos had been a MACO-owned Belgian Malinois instead of a bugle... I mean beagle.

 

[Ragitsu]

I wouldn't be able to stand the smell and the attendant solid biological matter.

 

[at Quark's]

Well, I think the pooch was OK, assuming it was a captain's privilege. A single pet on 150 humanoids wouldn't make much of a difference. As long as not all of the crew would start bringing their own pets. (Well, Hoshi had her slug, but that was only temporary, and Phlox's 'pets' were for medicinal purposes )

 

[Oddish]

Maybe Phlox should have had the dog, then. Maybe as a diagnostic tool or something.

About the biggest changes were the lower warp factors, the pockets in the uniforms, and the fact that the half-pip ranks no longer existed, which was probably just an excuse for not promoting people. Oh, and the grapnel instead of tractor beams... "Breaking the Ice" actually was pretty good indicator of Starfleet's technological limitations, as compared to their contemporaries.

 

[at Quark's]

When looking up that slug, I realised that even their expectations were fairly 24th century.

"We've been out here for two weeks now and the only first contact we've made is with a dying worm!" -Tucker

Even if we're charitable and we don't count the Broken Bow adventure in those 2 weeks, in a warp 4.5 capable vessel they could have covered just below 4 light years - so ordinarily speaking, that would have been just about enough to reach another star system.

So, what did they expect? Meeting humanoids or at least 'interesting lifeforms' in every star system they visit ?

 

[Oddish]

Given Archer's maturity level, it was kind of par for the course with him.

 

[Sumire]

Hey, their collective and absolute incomprehension that dropping off an alien species onto an entirely different planet is not a good idea in that episode certainly seemed to radiate believable “We are new at this and absolutely clueless!” energy.

 

[at Quark's]

Hey, their collective and absolute incomprehension that dropping off an alien species onto an entirely different planet is not a good idea in that episode certainly seemed to radiate believable “We are new at this and absolutely clueless!” energy.

What could possibly go wrong? At worst, they'll have created a 'planet of slugs'

But yeah, you'd think they would understand you shouldn't do that lightly. Even today we don't think it's a good idea to release a species in an area of the world where it doesn't occur naturally into free nature without at least thinking about it. Or by the time of Archer's enterprise they have learned things we don't know yet.

 

[Phaser Two]

the fact that the half-pip ranks no longer existed

As a huge fan of the costuming/wardrobe and military elements of the franchise, this drove me nuts. It also made absolutely no sense.

 

[Oddish]

I wouldn't be able to stand the smell and the attendant solid biological matter.

You're not alone. T'pol had little use for "primitive quadrupeds who haven't developed the ability to speak or to use a toilet."

Hey, their collective and absolute incomprehension that dropping off an alien species onto an entirely different planet is not a good idea in that episode certainly seemed to radiate believable “We are new at this and absolutely clueless!” energy.

Human colonies basically do just that.

What could possibly go wrong? At worst, they'll have created a 'planet of slugs'

Maybe Sluggo interbred with a native gastropod and started the evolution of a new species of sentient slug, which will one day wage a thousand-year war against humanity for its many acts of gastropocide.

Even today we don't think it's a good idea to release a species in an area of the world where it doesn't occur naturally into free nature without at least thinking about it. Or by the time of Archer's enterprise they have learned things we don't know yet.

Or forgotten stuff we know.

 

[Sumire]

Human colonies basically do just that.

Too true. One hopes that, being able to perceive the deleterious effects we have on an alien ecosystem, humanity would be able to reverse those effects but that is, admittedly, a very optimistic outlook (perhaps dangerously so).

 

[at Quark's]

Maybe Sluggo interbred with a native gastropod and started the evolution of a new species of sentient slug, which will one day wage a thousand-year war against humanity for its many acts of gastropocide."

Yes, I thought of that, but problems of our descendants millions of years hence that might possibly occur (but more likely not) are not really our problems. Also, they basically risk that every time they set foot on yet another (just discovered) planet, not just with human colonies. That is, they make sure they don't take unwanted pathogens with them from a planet, but I've never heard them talk about how they could influence that planet's future history with some of the microbes they brought to it.

Which is interesting, since in Silent Enemy they seem to be very conscious of such possible long-term ramifications when they are looking for a target practice spot.

 

[Oddish]

A very insightful thing was once said about Harry Kim's character: The creators of Voyager had a solid basis for a character, and a likable and capable actor in Garrett Wang, and could have done anything with Harry they wanted, and instead they chose to do nothing.

It's like... wow.

 

[Dee1891]

Oh, they did a lot with Harry. It just wasn't all good. And I wouldn't be surprised if Janeway or Chakotay had learned about his immature response to what happened to them in "Resolutions" or his near mutiny against Tuvok.