Garrett Wang

[Oddish]

I always thought that something like "non-official" promotion system was on Voyager, crew members were "virtually" promoted, and crew got their real promotions when Voy arrived home

They already have something like that, it's called "field promotion". As seen in "Menage a Troi" and the BoBW two-parter, field promotion includes rank insignia.

Tom was demoted then restored. Harry had time in grade, was a department head, and a good record. Promote him.

It's a no brainer, right? Every previous ensign was bumped up in under three years except Ogawa, who took a little over three. Seven years was ludicrous.

 

[Geargoose]

They already have something like that, it's called "field promotion". As seen in "Menage a Troi" and the BoBW two-parter, field promotion includes rank insignia.

No, I mean really virtual promotion, like "when we'll arrive home you'll be promoted to ...", but not now, else everyone would become LTCMDR except Chacotay, Jway and Tuvok for example. That would destroy the chain of command.

I've seen an article on memory beta about Kim and other ensigns being promoted to full lieutenant, Tom and B'elanna to LtCmdr etc.

After the Pilot, the 15ish Maquis, if you count the enlisted ranks, was 15 people promoted 5 to ten grades in her first week in the Delta Quadrant.

The Maquis were promoted only to replace dead crew members. Jway knew almost nothing about them, so she needed time to find a place for each one. Also, only few of maquis became got officer ranks, the others became crewmen

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, I mean really virtual promotion, like "when we'll arrive home you'll be promoted to ...", but not now, else everyone would become LTCMDR except Chacotay, Jway and Tuvok for example. That would destroy the chain of command.

I've seen an article on memory beta about Kim and other ensigns being promoted to full lieutenant


The Maquis were promoted only to replace dead crew members. Jway knew almost nothing about them, so she needed time to find a place for each one. Also, only few of maquis became got officer ranks, the others became crewmen

Bullshit.

Joe Carey had his neck stood on by B'Eleanna leap frogging over him.

Chakotay was arguing representation in VOY Paralax.

If the Maquis were not appropriately represented in the higher tiers of the command structure, there would be a coup, whereafter Janeway is held in a cage and routinely stuck with a cattle prod.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They already have something like that, it's called "field promotion". As seen in "Menage a Troi" and the BoBW two-parter, field promotion includes rank insignia.



It's a no brainer, right? Every previous ensign was bumped up in under three years except Ogawa, who took a little over three. Seven years was ludicrous.

The Maquis did not have pips.

They had "provisional rank badges".

Fake rank.

The kids at Starfleet School in Learning Curve, could they have been in line for Pips?

 

[at Quark's]

Lets say that Star Fleet wants to stop a promotion happy Captain from flooding their ship with promotions, so the computer caps it.

Maybe she's allowed to promote 5 people 1 grade per year, and that's it.

After the Pilot, the 15ish Maquis, if you count the enlisted ranks, was 15 people promoted 5 to ten grades in her first week in the Delta Quadrant.

She used up a decades worth of promotions on day 8.

Surely the computer would also have been programmed with emergency situations allowing to sidestep that rule, for example 1/3rd of your crew being killed and having to assimilate a different crew into your own hierarchical structure?

 

[Oddish]

As far as I know, only three Maquis received actual commissions. That is to say, they received officer rank despite not graduating from the Academy.
1. Torres, LTJG.
2. Ayala, LTJG.
3. Seska, ENS.

Torres attended the Academy, but left after a year. Ayala and Seska never attended.

Paris wasn't Maquis, and his Starfleet rank of LTJG was reinstated. Chakotay was Maquis, but he had an existing Starfleet rank of LCDR, likewise reinstated.

 

[Tosk]

^What about Ensign Suder? ...and also the four Learning Curve Maquis? (Edit: Actually, scratch those four. I think they were just "crewmen".)

 

[Guy Gardener]

^What about Ensign Suder? ...and also the four Learning Curve Maquis? (Edit: Actually, scratch those four. I think they were just "crewmen".)

Chell might have gotten a promotion when he took over the kitchen.

How hard would the Equinox 5 have had to have worked to get their rank back?

It would be weird is there were no Maquis Officers working under Commander Bartlet in the Nightshift, since representation was a thing.

 

[Oddish]

^What about Ensign Suder?

I might have missed a few. For some reason, I thought Suder was a crewman.

How hard would the Equinox 5 have had to have worked to get their rank back?

Janeway's reduction in their ranks were field demotions. They were probably reinstated upon return, but this was a pyrrhic victory because they were likely court-martialed for mass murder and violation of the Prime Directive. So Marla Aster was an ensign again... when she was cashiered from Starfleet and sent to serve a few years in New Zealand. I doubt the sentence was any worse, because of the extreme circumstances.

That's just my thought... the non-canon book "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway" provides a sunnier fate for Ms. Aster and the other four Equinox officers. It also reveals that Harry was promoted to lieutenant by Janeway right after the series ended, which I thought was a nice touch.

 

[Farscape One]

Marla Gilmore.

 

[Oddish]

Marla Gilmore.

Oops. Got my Marlas mixed up. Marla Aster was Jeremy's ill-fated mom.

 

[Farscape One]

Oops. Got my Marlas mixed up. Marla Aster was Jeremy's ill-fated mom.

 

[Oddish]

In any case, consider every action that Janeway does...
* Reinstates the commission of two former officers, one terminated as punishment and one resigned by choice.
* Gives a commission (officer rank) to at least four other civilians.
* Adds about 30 wanted guerillas to the uniformed crew, this includes assigning quarters and giving them access to assorted ship's systems and small arms.
* Adds three people (Neelix, Kes, Seven) to the crew as civilians. This includes access to small arms.
* Gives a computer program authority as chief medical officer.
* Promotes a non-Starfleet civilian to chief engineer, over a qualified officer.
* Promotes Tuvok from LT to LCDR.
* Reduces Tom from LTJG to ENS.
* Adds five Starfleet crew to the registry, but reduces them to the equivalent of E-1 (lowest enlisted rank).
* Reverses Tom's reduction after about one year.

Considering all that, do you really expect an intelligent person to believe that she couldn't give another officer, one whose performance was excellent and was years overdue, the acting rank of LTJG? That action would be far easier to justify than pretty much anything else she did!

 

[Summer Solstice]

Surely the computer would also have been programmed with emergency situations allowing to sidestep that rule, for example 1/3rd of your crew being killed and having to assimilate a different crew into your own hierarchical structure?

You would hope so, but if they had been in the Alpha Quadrant when that happened, they would have returned to a starbase and taken on more crew, so it's possible no one considered that scenario.

 

[Oddish]

Again, it's irrelevant. Once contact was established with the Alpha Quadrant, any issues of what Janeway could and could not do would have been quickly ironed out. So another "justification" for Harry's long ensignhood is neatly squashed.

 

[fireproof78]

Considering all that, do you really expect an intelligent person to believe that she couldn't give another officer, one whose performance was excellent and was years overdue, the acting rank of LTJG? That action would be far easier to justify than pretty much anything else she did!

Here's the thing. Janeway had no reason to not promote him, and every reason to do so. They had a long journey ahead of them and remaining at status quo basically told the crew that she expected them to stay stuck. By promoting them, advancing careers, it shows that there is a life outside of Voyager, even in the distant future.

 

[Oddish]

Exactly, it's a matter of boosting morale.There's a great meme, which unfortunately I have no idea how to bring in, but it's set in Voyager's ready room.

JANEWAY: "Morale is low. Suggestions?"
CHAKOTAY: "Pizza party."
PARIS: "Shore leave."
RANDOM DUDE: "Promote Ensign Kim.
JANEWAY: [death glare]
Cut to outside Voyager, and Random Dude goes spacewalking without a suit.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I might have missed a few. For some reason, I thought Suder was a crewman.



Janeway's reduction in their ranks were field demotions. They were probably reinstated upon return, but this was a pyrrhic victory because they were likely court-martialed for mass murder and violation of the Prime Directive. So Marla Aster was an ensign again... when she was cashiered from Starfleet and sent to serve a few years in New Zealand. I doubt the sentence was any worse, because of the extreme circumstances.

That's just my thought... the non-canon book "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway" provides a sunnier fate for Ms. Aster and the other four Equinox officers. It also reveals that Harry was promoted to lieutenant by Janeway right after the series ended, which I thought was a nice touch.

The Maquis might have been forgiven for 7 years service (time served) or they might have been forgiven for one specific act, like ending the Borg.

If the Maquis were forgiven for ending the Borg, the Equinox 5 should have been forgiven for ending the Borg by Starfleet, although...

It's criminal that Janeway (probably?) did nothing to mitigate their circumstances, the Maquis and the Equinox5, and Seven of Nine, until after she got home, seriously why even try if there's that little respect?

 

[Oddish]

If the Maquis were forgiven for ending the Borg, the Equinox 5 should have been forgiven for ending the Borg by Starfleet, although...

And if they did, I would be fine with that. Given the situation faced by the Equinox's crew, I can understand why they made the choices they made. If Janeway had been less of a b about the whole mess initially, the situation might have ended without two Federation ships trying to kill each other.

It's criminal that Janeway (probably?) did nothing to mitigate their circumstances, the Maquis and the Equinox5, and Seven of Nine, until after she got home, seriously why even try if there's that little respect?

We don't know that she didn't. After all, Chakotay not only escaped prison, but he remained in Starfleet and even got promoted to captain.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And if they did, I would be fine with that. Given the situation faced by the Equinox's crew, I can understand why they made the choices they made. If Janeway had been less of a b about the whole mess initially, the situation might have ended without two Federation ships trying to kill each other.



We don't know that she didn't. After all, Chakotay not only escaped prison, but he remained in Starfleet and even got promoted to captain.

End of Season 6. Lifeline.

There's an admiral who thinks the Maquis are criminals under house arrest who should be tagged and monitored, who is going to throw them in jail in just 5 years, when the relief ships rendezvous with Voyager.

She. Did. Nothing.

A show trial in season one where they were found innocent, or their sentence was buttoned down to 40 years in Starfleet, maybe?

Individual trials would have put Lon Suder and B'Elanna into confinement away from the ship's guts and particulars.

She fired Dreadnought at a civilian population. Sure, it missed, but that's still a war crime, and he probably killed a few people, outside of his polical affiliations.

An individual Trial might have even unmasked Seska, who should have been a friend, since the Federation and the Union were allies at the time.