Garak or Sloan
- Thread starter MrPointy
- Start date
Depends on if Sloan tricked Bashir into killing him to finish the Dominion war while washing Starfleets hands clean of Section 31's actions? ...It also depends on if Sloan really died. It also depends on if he's related to Arvin Sloan?
Garak is excellent at what he does, but he's blue collar middle management no matter who his father is.
Garak is excellent at what he does, but he's blue collar middle management no matter who his father is.
Garak is street smart and very adapt at improvising and bluffing. Sloan seem to me more like a meticulous planner and depends way too much on high tech gadgets.
I'll give the initial advantage to Sloan, if he can surprise Garak he might have a shot at winning. After that, Garak should be able to out-talk, outsmart and outmaneuver Sloan.
I'll give the initial advantage to Sloan, if he can surprise Garak he might have a shot at winning. After that, Garak should be able to out-talk, outsmart and outmaneuver Sloan.
Sloan. Garak's Obsidian Order was a feared and extremely effective organization, but one that existed in the open and with state support. I suppose one could match the other’s moves, machination for machination, but Sloan’s went deeper and even more serpentinely into, e.g., the Romulan Senate than did Garak’s.
On the other hand, Garak would have never, never fallen for the Doctor’s ruse of sending to Starfleet a report that he’d found a cure to their ingeniously constructed Changeling Killer Virus. Neither could dismiss a report like that out of hand, but Garek would have been a lot more clever about how he vetted the truth of the matter.
I guess the answer is, which plot would it serve to have one or the other fail? The truth is, clandestine organizations fail much more often than they succeed, though their successes in infiltrating the CIA or MI5 are usually treated as spectacular.
On the other hand, Garak would have never, never fallen for the Doctor’s ruse of sending to Starfleet a report that he’d found a cure to their ingeniously constructed Changeling Killer Virus. Neither could dismiss a report like that out of hand, but Garek would have been a lot more clever about how he vetted the truth of the matter.
I guess the answer is, which plot would it serve to have one or the other fail? The truth is, clandestine organizations fail much more often than they succeed, though their successes in infiltrating the CIA or MI5 are usually treated as spectacular.
Garak - Live
Sloan - Dead
Any questions?
Sloan - Dead
Any questions?
Not really a comparison.
Sloan was a spook.
Garak was an assassin.
It would be almost like comparing Edward Wilson to Jason Bourne.
Sloan was a spook.
Garak was an assassin.
It would be almost like comparing Edward Wilson to Jason Bourne.
I was in no way certain Garak would survive WYLB, so I wouldn't say plot armor was assured.
Really, Garak was the son and star protege of Enabrun Tain. They were the two best agents of the most ruthless and dangerous Intelligence organization in the Quadrant. Sloane, on the other hand, was never even confirmed to be a major player in Section 31. His actions might just have been part of somebody else's carefully orchestrated plan.
On the other hand, if you factor out their reputations and just judge them by their on-screen deeds, they both fare pretty poorly.
Garak:
- Living in disgraced exile for the duration of the series
- Failed to notice his friend Bashir was a Changeling imposter.
- Suffered at least three bouts of crippling psychological disorders.
- And that's not even counting the time he went insane and killed several of his comrades on Empok Nor.
- Cornered by the counter-insurgency program.
- Captured or detained by the Dominion multiple times.
Sloan
- Failed to recruit Bashir.
- In fact his deception failed pretty darn quickly.
- Tricked into returning to DS9 by a fairly obvious ploy.
- Captured by Bashir and O'Brien.
- Killed himself, yet still failed to keep the cure to the Founders' disease secret.
Really, Garak was the son and star protege of Enabrun Tain. They were the two best agents of the most ruthless and dangerous Intelligence organization in the Quadrant. Sloane, on the other hand, was never even confirmed to be a major player in Section 31. His actions might just have been part of somebody else's carefully orchestrated plan.
On the other hand, if you factor out their reputations and just judge them by their on-screen deeds, they both fare pretty poorly.
Garak:
- Living in disgraced exile for the duration of the series
- Failed to notice his friend Bashir was a Changeling imposter.
- Suffered at least three bouts of crippling psychological disorders.
- And that's not even counting the time he went insane and killed several of his comrades on Empok Nor.
- Cornered by the counter-insurgency program.
- Captured or detained by the Dominion multiple times.
Sloan
- Failed to recruit Bashir.
- In fact his deception failed pretty darn quickly.
- Tricked into returning to DS9 by a fairly obvious ploy.
- Captured by Bashir and O'Brien.
- Killed himself, yet still failed to keep the cure to the Founders' disease secret.
Um. if Section 31 even existed, the points you marked as Sloan's failures were the turning points and keystone to Federation victory in the Dominion War... You don't think that was the plan? I've watched four seasons of Hustle and both Sting movies... You figure out what happened backwards by asking who benefits... And if Sloan wanted federation Victory, then every loss and blunder led him to that exactly required conclusion.
Section 31 would not have been pleased with the results. They wanted to eliminate a species that they saw as a tremendous threat to the Federation. Because of Sloan's failures, the Founders have retreated out of Section 31's reaches and are free to plot against the Federation at their convenience. Sloan's failure grabbed temporary peace from the jaws of total victory, so to put it. And all of that happened because Sloan not only bungled the attempt to recruit an extremely valuable ally, but turned both he and the commander of Starfleet's war efforts against them.
Sloan took his subjects out of their "real worlds" in order to trick and scheme. Garak did it all in the wide open, right in front of everyone. Sloan could get you if you were on his turf, Garak could get you anywhere.
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