Garak and Ziyal

[JM1776]

Is it your impression that he genuinely reciprocated her obvious affection and attraction?

Granted, Garak was completely (and, it seemed, continually) astonished that she cared for him. He says as much in the denouement to "Sacrifice of Angels."

But frankly, Robinson's portrayal conveyed, at least to me, that Garak was himself a bit startled at how he felt for her.

So, was she simply a piec– er, slice of home ... a tactic to infuriate her father ... or had he all unknowing and a bit unwilling fallen for her? Alternately, was it a combination of the above?

What's your take, Niners?

 

[smeos]

I think that there was something there, although Garak's nature and Obsidian Order training would have compelled him to keep it tightly controlled. I would venture that, judging by the sadness in his voice when she died, that he hadn't really appreciated what he had until it was gone.

 

[Navaros]

Garak definitely had the hots for her as evidenced in the episode where he is really shy to talk to her but definitely is interested to spend time with her.

He was just nervous because of her connection to Dukat, and he didn't wanna let her know the dastardly things he's done which would start to come out if he was forthcoming with her. He probably was also nervous because he worried about corrupting her innocent soul.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

So, was she simply a piec– er, slice of home ... a tactic to infuriate her father ... or had he all unknowing and a bit unwilling fallen for her? Alternately, was it a combination of the above?

All of the above. One implication of Garak being both contemporary to and an enemy of Ziyal's father, is that he is also clearly older than she. She was relatively immature by comparison. It could be that he is well aware that being involved with this young woman would further antagonize Dukat and possibly cost him his life; that like him, she is virtually alone and that her attention may have little to do with him as a person; that being the former secret super agent of the Obsidian Order, he's deciplined himself over a life time not to become truly, personally involved with anyone, and she is certainly trying his resolve on that score.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'm in the Garak-is-gay camp. Ziyal was too young and naive to figure out what everyone else on the station had, long ago, with the possible exception of poor Julian...

But Garak appeared to be developing a fatherly affection for Ziyal based on their mutual status as outcasts.

I wonder what would have happened if Damar had survived the war. Would Garak have felt obligated to hunt him down and kill him, despite his last-minute conversion to heroism? I'd imagine so. Just on general principle.

 

[Triskelion]

I'm in the Garak-is-gay camp. Ziyal was too young and naive to figure out what everyone else on the station had, long ago, with the possible exception of poor Julian...

But Garak appeared to be developing a fatherly affection for Ziyal based on their mutual status as outcasts.

I wonder what would have happened if Damar had survived the war. Would Garak have felt obligated to hunt him down and kill him, despite his last-minute conversion to heroism? I'd imagine so. Just on general principle.

I agree, it's an interesting question. The fact that none - not Garak, Kira, nor Dukat - killed Damar where he stood the next time they saw him showed a great reservoir of self-control in each of these characters. Yet I'm sure that each of them were capable of finishing the job once Damar became less vital to the survival of Cardassia. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I interpret Garak as unwilling to soil Ziyal with his life, protecting her from her own attraction to him. Or should I say, he was astonished that she would think him worthy of her love. Once they got past the idea of having to kill each other, that is.

Cardies

 

[DanCPA]

I think that Garak is a man... a straight man
While I am sure he finds some of the non-Cardies attractive... here is this beautiful young cardassian woman that obviously want to be with him... So, he is curious... He is obviously worried that she is the daughter of Gul Dukat, but once he sees that her interest in him is real, why not go for it?

Sure, there is the rather creepy fact that Garak is likely 30 or 40 years older than her... but when they are the only 2 cardassians on the station... why not!

 

[Eric Cheung]

I'm in the Garak-is-gay camp. Ziyal was too young and naive to figure out what everyone else on the station had, long ago, with the possible exception of poor Julian...

But Garak appeared to be developing a fatherly affection for Ziyal based on their mutual status as outcasts.

I wonder what would have happened if Damar had survived the war. Would Garak have felt obligated to hunt him down and kill him, despite his last-minute conversion to heroism? I'd imagine so. Just on general principle.

I think whether or not Garak killed Damar would have to do with how much of a patriot he was. I think he loved Cardassia, he certainly became part of the recontruction movement in the character memoir. So I think that he might have put his feelings aside for Cardassia if he thought Damar would have made a good world leader. At this point Damar wasn't simply a patriot, he was a symbol--someone to whom Cardassians could look up.

Of course Garak was truly unpredictable. Perhaps he would have concocted a scheme to have Damar serve as a martyr to the cause of a reborn Cardassia by making him appear to be assassinated by someone else, canonizing Damar as an even bigger mythological hero and exacting his revenge at once.

 

[SoM]

The fact that none - not Garak, Kira, nor Dukat - killed Damar where he stood the next time they saw him showed a great reservoir of self-control in each of these characters. Yet I'm sure that each of them were capable of finishing the job once Damar became less vital to the survival of Cardassia. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I don't think Dukat would have done it - if he'd been plotting to kill him later (well, specifically anyway, as opposed to anything the Pah-Wraiths might do once he'd helped to release them), he wouldn't have done the "Cardassia NEEDS a leader" routine with him just as he was about to leave for DS9 & Bajor, after being surgically altered to appear Bajoran. He could just have left him to wallow in his own drunkeness.

Of the three, I think Garak is easily the most likely to kill Damar (probably in the way EC suggests, finding a way to hide his own involvement and cast him as a martyr, since he usually kept an eye on The Big Picture). Kira had been worn down by the Feds enough not to openly kill him in the circumstances, and probably wouldn't be subtle enough to try such a manoeuvre.

 

[JM1776]

Noting Damar's reaction to Kira in the minutes after learning his wife and son had been killed was probably enough to give Garak serious pause.

Besides, death would have ended his grief ... and we can't have that.

 

[indranee]

I think he liked her and was flattered by the attention. and he also wasn't against using her a leeeetle bit to rattle Dukat. that's all.

 

[DrTaylor]

I saw their relationship as platonic, sort of like mine with my gay male friends, which would wander back into Garak is Gay territory. But whatever the reason, I don't think they necessarily had a sexual relationship. It may have drifted in that direction, especially once Ziyal grew up a little, but we'll never know, will we, because Damar SHOT HER.

I'm still angry with Damar.

 

[Hermiod]

I think Garak restrained himself. The man has enemies, even with Tain out of the picture. Those enemies would think nothing of killing Ziyal to get to him.

 

[DanCPA]

True, but she was relatively safe aboard DS9.
And we have seen that Garak is very keen at keeping ahead of the curve (blowing up his own ship et al)

 

[Eric Cheung]

Besides, death would have ended his grief ... and we can't have that.

I doubt that. One can't just extinguish emotions through such an act; it's basically running away. If even after committing the act he still believed his grief was gone then he would have been in denial or suppressing it.

 

[JM1776]

Actually, I meant Damar's death would have ended Damar's grief ... and Garak wouldn't have wanted that.

Sorry. I should have been clearer.

 

[Solariabsg25]

My personal opinion is that Garak started with the intention of simpy using a friendship with Ziyal to get under the skin of Dukat. However, over time, he found himself actually growing fond of her, maybe feelings deeper that I suspect he could not, and would not, have acted on.

 

[DanCPA]

My personal opinion is that Garak started with the intention of simpy using a friendship with Ziyal to get under the skin of Dukat.

Doubtful. Think of it, Garak obviously would want companionship... and he would likely not find too many possibilities on a BAJORAN station... even the federation didn't trust him. So, I think he enjoyed the time he got with Ziyal... pissing Dukat off was a perk

However, over time, he found himself actually growing fond of her, maybe feelings deeper that I suspect he could not, and would not, have acted on.

Why not act on it? Garak always seemed to me as the man who got what he wanted

 

[indranee]

he didn't want Dukat on his tail more than ever?

 

[nx1701g]

^ I don't think that Garak was too concerned by Dukat.