Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

[Mudd]

I think the subtext of Tyrion's plea for Bran - and at the end, he's explicit about it - was something like: "We need a monarch in order for us to rule, and I'm nominating a guy we can sell to the people who will do no harm to the landed nobility and probably leave us pretty much alone."

IOW, the facts that Bran is sort of a blank slate and has no real power base are good things where the powerful are concerned.

The end of last scene with the Small Council was amusing in that regard.

 

[Turtletrekker]

. And I'm even including her execution of the Tarlys here. They refused to bend the knee and she had every right to execute them.

Bullshit.

Just take a look at this sentence and tell me one thing that's right about it.

 

[Saul]

Another season to let things stew might have helped this season more. I think the night King should be one season arc and taking kings landing another.

The final was somewhat predictable as in who we the audience thought needed to die. I was hoping for more of a "fu*k you" game of thrones ending which was such a large part of the series popularity.

On a personal note it will be nice to have something else to talk about. Everyone I know talks about this show. I'm glad we are moving on.

Here's to a reunion show in 10 years.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Bran was chosen as a harmless figurehead.

I also wonder if nominating Bran was a backdoor power grab for Tyrion. He must have suspected he would have been Bran’s choice as Hand. And that Bran would be the kind of King who’d give grand directives for “Help people” then leave him alone to do so in a manner of his choosing.

Tyrion is Hand the same way Cheney was Vice President.

 

[Longinus]

Bullshit.

Just take a look at this sentence and tell me one thing that's right about it.

This series opened with Ned Stark beheading an oathbreaker. Jon Snow hanged a child. Arya fed a man his own children she had murdered. And these are the people most viewers consider to be 'the good guys.' By the standards of the setting nothing Daenerys did before suddenly snapping in the penultimate episode was particularly heinous. Which why it is more bizarre that from the season seven Tyrion and Varys who certainly had gallons of blood on their hands suddenly developed 21st century morals and perfectly normal medieval monarch behaviour from Daenerys was seen as signs of her being unstable. These characters were trying to gaslight the viewers to accept the later implausible twist. It didn't work.

 

[Mr Awe]

Bran was chosen as a harmless figurehead.

Agreed. This is pretty much what I posited earlier in this thread. Bran is someone who everyone could essentially get behind. And, there was just enough logic there to grease the wheels. None of the other high rollers there had any reason to expect they'd lose anything.

 

[Turtletrekker]

This series opened with Ned Stark beheading an oathbreaker. Jon Snow hanged a child. Arya fed a man his own children she had murdered. And these are the people most viewers consider to be 'the good guys.' By the standards of the setting nothing Daenerys did before suddenly snapping in the penultimate episode was particularly heinous. Which why it is more bizarre that from the season seven Tyrion and Varys who certainly had gallons of blood on their hands suddenly developed 21st century morals and perfectly normal medieval monarch behaviour from Daenerys was seen as signs of her being unstable. These characters were trying to gaslight the viewers to accept the later implausible twist. It didn't work.

Ned Stark was the head of a great house with responsibilities to the rule of law. Jon Snow was a military leader of men who needed to maintain discipline. Daenerys was a spoiled little brat who took everything she wanted because she believed it to be hers, and simply slaughtered anyone who wouldn't pay her fealty or got in her way. Her "rights" existed entirely in her head.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Bran was chosen as a harmless figurehead.

I also wonder if nominating Bran was a backdoor power grab for Tyrion. He must have suspected he would have been Bran’s choice as Hand. And that Bran would be the kind of King who’d give grand directives for “Help people” then leave him alone to do so in a manner of his choosing.

Tyrion is Hand the same way Cheney was Vice President.

Father like son...

Oops, don't tell Tyrion that!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

^^^^
No, I think he explicitly learned that from Tiwyn.

Dany’s actions were only acceptable to us because all her previous victims were evil. Slave traders or people who wronged her.

Tyrion wasn’t more moral at the end than beginning, just more responsible. Varys is the only one who suddenly became moral and it happened in season 5.

 

[Longinus]

Ned Stark was the head of a great house with responsibilities to the rule of law. Jon Snow was a military leader of men who needed to maintain discipline. Daenerys was a spoiled little brat who took everything she wanted because she believed it to be hers.

Oh right, I can see how objective you are! This is like a textbook example of a double-standard.

Daenerys obviously was head of a great house and a military leader who had to uphold the rule of law and discipline. And Ned and Jon were way more spoiled brats, they were born in to wealth and privilege and had never to fight their way up from slavery.

 

[Longinus]

Dany’s actions were only acceptable to us because all her previous victims were evil.

Yes indeed! Almost like that matters! Almost like in the real world apprehending and imprisoning criminals is a different thing than kidnapping some random people!

 

[Turtletrekker]

It's amazing the lengths people go to justify her actions.

 

[Booji]

This series opened with Ned Stark beheading an oathbreaker. Jon Snow hanged a child. Arya fed a man his own children she had murdered. And these are the people most viewers consider to be 'the good guys.' By the standards of the setting nothing Daenerys did before suddenly snapping in the penultimate episode was particularly heinous. Which why it is more bizarre that from the season seven Tyrion and Varys who certainly had gallons of blood on their hands suddenly developed 21st century morals and perfectly normal medieval monarch behaviour from Daenerys was seen as signs of her being unstable. These characters were trying to gaslight the viewers to accept the later implausible twist. It didn't work.

At no point did Ned, Jon or Arya burn alive pows, crucify peeps, talk about destroying entire cities during a conquest, or idly sit by while women were raped because they thought they were the Chosen One. Ned and Jon were punishing people who broke the law or committed treason. They didn't relish in the blood. Arya... yeah, she went kill crazy, but I can give her a pass as it was, in a sense, punishing those who committed treason against family.

 

[Longinus]

It's amazing the lengths people go to justify her actions.

Merely in the context of the setting. By modern standards these are all horrible people.

Daenerys was obviously a hypocrite and a ruthless megalomaniac. Yet her self image was built on her (misguided) idea of protecting the downtrodden and not being her father. In the Bells her cruelty did not naturally flow from her previous characterisation. Going from Alexander to Hitler in one episode just doesn't work.

 

[Longinus]

The double standard here is absurd. Randyll Tarly committed a treason against his liege, the House Tyrell. He led an army to sack Highgarden, leading to who knows how many deaths and other suffering. And even after this Daenerys offers him a chance to repent, which he refuses. Only then is he put to death. Dickon basically insists to join his father.

Jon Snow hangs a ten year old kid. Yes, that kid participated in a rebellion and a murder attempt. But he was a kid! Ten-year-olds can be pressured to do all sort of stupid things by adults. No second chances or a way to repent were offered.

Now I am not saying that this is proof that Daenerys is 'good' or Jon was 'bad', both situations were fucked up. But it is pretty twisted to see only one of these as a sign of madness or a lack of morals.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Looking back at the series as a whole, possibly the most successful ruler we have seen was Robert Baratheon.

After his decisive win at the Trident and his generals' capture of Kings Landing, he pardoned all those surviving enemies who bent the knee (albeit demanding wards/hostages in return), effectively ensuring their loyalty until the day he died. It was his own wife and a wild boar that killed him in the end. But the people loved him for his magnanimous nature and I don't believe there was ever an assassination attempt on his life from outside the family. Yes, he sought to assassinate Dany by proxy, as she had a claim to the throne he usurped (and likely would have attempted the same on Jon had Robert known his true lineage), but on the whole he seemed to be a generally-acceptable monarch and a capable leader.

Dany could have taken that strategy and wound up being one of the most beloved rulers in the history of Westeros and all the more gray-shaded moral decisions she made would likely have been forgiven and forgotten over time.

 

[fireproof78]

Merely in the context of the setting. By modern standards these are all horrible people.

Welcome to why I can't watch this show. But, these responses are highly educational.

 

[Longinus]

Welcome to why I can't watch this show. But, these responses are highly educational.

I recommend staying away from history books! It is often even worse!

One of the defining features of this show has been moral greyness, and that that there are no clean and easy decisions. Now this is something I don't want to see everywhere, I'd hate it in Star Trek which I want to be optimistic, but GoT should stay true to its concept. Thus I really loathe how in the end they went with such a copout. Daenerys goes full Hitler so that Jon can kill her and still stay clearly 'good'. He can feel bad about it, but still be pure. "Oh poor, Dany, this is so sad, but she had rabies, I had to do it." And then does any repercussions follow from such an momentous act? Will the dragon go berserk and burninate everything? Will the enraged Dotharaki pillage and rampage the land? Will the unsullied execute Jon and Tyrion in a horrible way? Will the land fall into anarchy? Well, no. Nothing of the sort happens. Just like with the Night King, once the loadbearing boss is killed, the opposition just vanishes, and all other related and even unrelated problems just go away. Everyone just sit down and holds hands and there is no disagreement, happy ending for the good guys!

 

[fireproof78]

I recommend staying away from history books! It is often even worse!

I prefer history.

 

[Masiral]

"I've never strangled my lover, Tyrion!" .

I mean, he was a vegetable at that point, but she did technically smother Drogo...