Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

[Jax]

Cersei's been in denial since episode one.

 

[eschaton]

I don't know. I had issues with how dumb they presented Cersei at the end. When she didn't seem to understand what was happening. Clueless about her side losing. Maybe, denial? But, it just didn't ring true to her character. So, maybe they tried salvaging hers at the end, but earlier they through it under the bus!

Didn't ruin the episode for me. I just expected more fight and intelligence out of her!

I think she - like many - was a victim of the short season. Ultimately they didn't really have any good ideas about what to do with her this season besides that final scene they wanted her in. So they had her sit around chewing scenery in odd scenes in episodes 1 and 4 waiting for that final moment.

I also think that structurally speaking it was a good idea to have the battle - and thus all of Cersei's plans - end up being a rout. It turns out the main theme of the season is the fall of Dany, and Cersei is a sideshow. Having any real impediments to the carnage - making us doubt the ultimate outcome - would have blunted the raw emotional assault of the episode.

 

[eschaton]

Cersei's been in denial since episode one.

A woman who was smart about holding power would have allowed Bobby B to place at least one true heir in her womb.

It's very obvious in the books that Cersei isn't that smart. She thinks she's her father's mental equal, but she is not. Her father's mental equal is Tyrion.

 

[Mr Awe]

Game of Thrones is a bloody, evil world where if you live long enough you have a good chance of becoming the very thing you sought to destroy. It's a message worth telling and a message as old as time but it happens over and over again. There are no happy endings in life.

Yes! You've been paying attention!

Seriously, I do agree. I'm just surprised by those who thought there'd be a happy ending. Bittersweet is the best we can expect. After all, this is Game of Thrones!

 

[Jax]

I wonder if Vary's got his letter off and who too?

Will the other Kingdoms rally around Jon especially a large army in waiting like in Dorne.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Thinking about everything in retrospect. Cersei hasn't really been a player since season 5. That was the last time she had power and influence to flex. Cersei had nothing to do in season 6, until the Sept blew up. Season 7, Cersei had even less to do and even fewer interactions. Season 8 Cersei stands around a lot and sits sometimes. The King's Landing story dried up a long time ago. But D&D are big fans of Lena Heady the actress. So she stayed way past her sell by date.

 

[Mr Awe]

I think she - like many - was a victim of the short season. Ultimately they didn't really have any good ideas about what to do with her this season besides that final scene they wanted her in. So they had her sit around chewing scenery in odd scenes in episodes 1 and 4 waiting for that final moment.

I also think that structurally speaking it was a good idea to have the battle - and thus all of Cersei's plans - end up being a rout. It turns out the main theme of the season is the fall of Dany, and Cersei is a sideshow. Having any real impediments to the carnage - making us doubt the ultimate outcome - would have blunted the raw emotional assault of the episode.

That's a great point. Plot logic suggests that to play up Dany's breakdown, they've got to make it obvious that Kings Landing is no contest. All of that destruction was not required. They did that. It's just a bit disappointing because for awhile now I've been thinking she's got something up her sleeve, a trick planned, or something. But, nope, not a thing!

 

[137th Gebirg]

I don't know. I had issues with how dumb they presented Cersei at the end. When she didn't seem to understand what was happening. Clueless about her side losing. Maybe, denial? But, it just didn't ring true to her character. So, maybe they tried salvaging hers at the end, but earlier they through it under the bus!

Didn't ruin the episode for me. I just expected more fight and intelligence out of her!

Same thing happened to Hitler. Soviet heavy artillery were hitting the core of Berlin and infantry were penetrating across the eastern half of the city while he still thought there were multiple SS panzer divisions defending the perimeter. His generals were feeding him false information to keep him from completely losing his shit. The truth was, there were barely enough old men and young boys in the Volkssturm to cover more than a handful of bridges.

 

[Seven of Five]

Some of GoT's best moments have been thoroughly brutal, it's what always kept me coming back. The Starks on the whole have really have been through the ringer.

 

[137th Gebirg]

That's a great point. Plot logic suggests that to play up Dany's breakdown, they've got to make it obvious that Kings Landing is no contest. All of that destruction was not required. They did that. It's just a bit disappointing because for awhile now I've been thinking she's got something up her sleeve, a trick planned, or something. But, nope, not a thing!

I was convinced she was going to order Qyburn to ignite of all the wildfire to keep her and the city from being taken. She had Tyrion commission the Pyromancers of the Alchemists' Guild to fill the whole underside of King's Landing with it and Tyrion should have known it was there and warned Dany against using too much dragonfire, concentrating her attacks on the Golden Company, outer wall and the Red Keep. My confusion about Cersei not giving that order was exacerbated by the actual wildfire started cooking off from the dragonfire above. It was actually there! Although I then wondered why it didn't do more damage. That stuff burns for days, particularly in the quantities that were made and stored there. Maybe she used most of her reserves to blow up the Sept of Baelor and there was only a little bit left. A quandary...

 

[eschaton]

That's a great point. Plot logic suggests that to play up Dany's breakdown, they've got to make it obvious that Kings Landing is no contest. All of that destruction was not required. They did that. It's just a bit disappointing because for awhile now I've been thinking she's got something up her sleeve, a trick planned, or something. But, nope, not a thing!

I also think that's part of the reason why they decided to "soften" Cersei in her final act. If we really thought she was a total monster, we would take away from this that at least some good had come out of the sack of King's Landing. But the death just seems sad and senseless. The deaths of Qybern, Euron, and that rando Golden Company commander also just seem senseless. Really Cleganebowl was the only thing we got an emotional rush out of, and it was clearly added so the episode had some fanservice.

 

[Mr Awe]

Same thing happened to Hitler. Soviet heavy artillery were hitting the core of Berlin and infantry were penetrating across the eastern half of the city while he still thought there were multiple SS panzer divisions defending the perimeter. His generals were feeding him false information to keep him from completely losing his shit. The truth was, there were barely enough old men and young boys in the Volkssturm to cover more than a handful of bridges.

I think my disappointment with that had more to do with my expectations. I thought she was there coming up with plans and stuff. Something up her sleeve. But, that's wasn't the case at all. Just a pushover. Oh well, as you point out, the reality from a character's point of view isn't necessarily correct!

 

[Reverend]

Season 1, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 2, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 3, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 4, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 5, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 6, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 7, Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 8 Arya: "I'm going to kill Cersie"
Season 8 Sandor: "Yeah she's going to kill Cersie!"
5 mins later Sandor: "Wait, maybe don't kill Cersie!"
Arya: "M'kay, thanks bye!"

Well that episode was...umm...oh dear. I mean I knew going in this season would be truncated to say the least and the narrative rushed; how could it not be with only 6 episodes? And I know the first four episodes have been exactly that, and for the most part I've been OK to just sit back and enjoy the ride...but this penultimate episode is really taking the piss.

Sure, the writing quality has taken a major hit ever since they ran out of GRRM material and certain characters have been behaving more in accordance with the demands of the plot than their characters, but up until now they've *mostly* managed to maintain the integrity of the characters. All of which they've just thrown out the window in the vain attempt at being shocking.

Jamie reverting back to his season 1 self...because reasons?
Arya abandoning her singular vendetta that has so far seen her stab peoples eyes out, butcher, bake and serve them in pies to their father before silting said father's throat, peeling his face off and talking the rest of his family into drinking a lethal dose of poison....because reasons!
Daenerys going kill-crazy, deliberately and systematically burning defenceless civilians street-by-street...because REASONS!?!?!

I'm sorry, this isn't storytelling, it's box-checking. RIP GoT.

 

[Booji]

My confusion about Cersei not giving that order was exacerbated by the actual wildfire started cooking off from the dragonfire above. It was actually there! Although I then wondered why it didn't do more damage. That stuff burns for days, particularly in the quantities that were made and stored there. Maybe she used most of her reserves to blow up the Sept of Baelor and there was only a little bit left. A quandary...

I thought the same, but then realized Ragnarok Hulk sorta sums it up (paraphrasing)... "Dragonfire like raging fire. Wildfire like smoldering fire".... or something like that

 

[eschaton]

Honestly, a lot of the plot arcs for the characters this season have basically ended up being plot circles, bringing them back to where they were to begin with.

Theon - Starts as a ward of the Starks. Betrays them, but ultimately comes back "home" to where he truly belongs.
Jorah - Dies as he begins, next to Dany's side.
Arya - Goes from frightened girl to PTSD survivor, to amoral machine of vengeance, back to frightened little girl
Tyrion - Goes from being all about protecting his family - regardless of how fucked up it is - to betraying his family - to being all about his family again.
Jamie - Ends his life as he began it, at his sister's side.

 

[Mr Awe]

Honestly, a lot of the plot arcs for the characters this season have basically ended up being plot circles, bringing them back to where they were to begin with.

Theon - Starts as a ward of the Starks. Betrays them, but ultimately comes back "home" to where he truly belongs.
Jorah - Dies as he begins, next to Dany's side.
Arya - Goes from frightened girl to PTSD survivor, to amoral machine of vengeance, back to frightened little girl
Tyrion - Goes from being all about protecting his family - regardless of how fucked up it is - to betraying his family - to being all about his family again.
Jamie - Ends his life as he began it, at his sister's side.

I'd just say that for the living characters there's still potential at least for some non-circle arcs! We'll see, but, yeah, I guess GRRM's characters really do make the bad decisions as he claims!

 

[crookeddy]

People never really change became the central theme. I don't agree with this theme nor do I like it.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It’s a good point that people would have seen Dany differently if she were male.

For seven seasons, the writers showed us an entitled psychopath building three weapons of mass destruction and justifying it all on moral grounds, then dared us to see her as a sweet little girl rebelling to end slavery.

In a way I see that as the writers commenting on us and the way we view political figures. We were just as drawn in as Tyrion and Jon. But all the evidence is right there in retrospect.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Honestly, a lot of the plot arcs for the characters this season have basically ended up being plot circles, bringing them back to where they were to begin with.

Theon - Starts as a ward of the Starks. Betrays them, but ultimately comes back "home" to where he truly belongs.
Jorah - Dies as he begins, next to Dany's side.
Arya - Goes from frightened girl to PTSD survivor, to amoral machine of vengeance, back to frightened little girl
Tyrion - Goes from being all about protecting his family - regardless of how fucked up it is - to betraying his family - to being all about his family again.
Jamie - Ends his life as he began it, at his sister's side.

People never really change became the central theme. I don't agree with this theme nor do I like it.

Yeah, I don't like that either. It works for Theon because of the terrible things he did in the name of his bloodline before realizing who his true family was, but it doesn't work for Jaime or Tyrion.

That said, I don't agree that Arya has returned to being a frightened girl. As I said before, anyone would've been terrified in the face of the burning of King's Landing. Further, she's gone from an agent of death to an agent for life, reclaiming her humanity.

 

[eschaton]

I'd just say that for the living characters there's still potential at least for some non-circle arcs! We'll see, but, yeah, I guess GRRM's characters really do make the bad decisions as he claims!

I think Sam has had actual forward motion over the series. I mean, he's still a coward, but he's less of one than he was, and actually got laid.

Pod has had a nice, yet understated, arc over the show too. I dunno if we'll see him again, but I like to think he's still having sex with those two women in Winterfell.