Game of Thrones 4.7 - "Mockingbird" - Rate and discuss

[Venardhi]

I've been trying to puzzle out Littlefinger's strategy for a while. Now that Lysa's dead, he's got the Vale. If he marries Sansa, he's got the North (though Bran and Rickon can still mess him up there). He was given Harrenhall. Is he planning on taking Westeros piece by piece?

He doesn't really have The Vale, at least not long-term. He has as much claim to it as Cersei had to the throne. Robin has always been next in line after his father's death, even when Lysa was ruling the Vale in his name. Lysa's death changes nothing, and it isn't like he can just kill Robin to get it either, since it would then go to the next Arryn heir.

 

[InklingStar]

I've been trying to puzzle out Littlefinger's strategy for a while. Now that Lysa's dead, he's got the Vale. If he marries Sansa, he's got the North (though Bran and Rickon can still mess him up there). He was given Harrenhall. Is he planning on taking Westeros piece by piece?

He doesn't really have The Vale, at least not long-term. He has as much claim to it as Cersei had to the throne. Robin has always been next in line after his father's death, even when Lysa was ruling the Vale in his name. Lysa's death changes nothing, and it isn't like he can just kill Robin to get it either, since it would then go to the next Arryn heir.

Littlefinger is now the stepfather / guardian of the heir to the Vale, though, which gives him enormous leeway in controlling it for the next few years. (If he can keep the Vale bannermen off his back, of course.) He does not seem to be one for ruling up front, but prefers to pulls the strings from behind.

 

[Venardhi]

That assumes his continued ability to manipulate Robin, who has shown himself to be made from a mold more akin to Joffrey than Tommen.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You know what was chilling.. Cersei marching over the entrails of the just gutted, skirts lifted, towards the Mountain.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

Episode 'recap'

 

[bbjeg]

Anyone else think Arya went too far killing Rouge for saying bad words to her? In all fairness, he was having a bad day being locked in a cage and all.

 

[Skywalker]

Too far for someone with a more common moral viewpoint, but Arya's sense of morality has clearly been changing throughout the series. She's clearly decided for herself that it's safer to kill them before they have a chance to kill you.

 

[Venardhi]

Mind you, he was also there to kill them.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Both those guys were hardened criminals on their way to the Wall when they were captured by Lannister forces. It's not like Arya killed some perfectly nice guy they happened to run into. They were quite likely the ones who'd torched that house in the first place.

I wouldn't say it was strictly a self-defense situation, but it was pretty close.

 

[Brolan]

Arya has had everything taken away from her and has seen some horrible things. She is purely in revenge mode now.

 

[bbjeg]

Mind you, he was also there to kill them.

Rouge wasn't there to kill Arya, him and his partner wanted the Hound.

Both those guys were hardened criminals on their way to the Wall when they were captured by Lannister forces. It's not like Arya killed some perfectly nice guy they happened to run into. They were quite likely the ones who'd torched that house in the first place.

I wouldn't say it was strictly a self-defense situation, but it was pretty close.

Not everyone who goes to the Wall is evil. Gendry was on his way to the Wall and he wasn't a criminal. If I was being sent to the Wall, personally, I'd try to escape and if they caught me, they'd have to cage me too to keep me there. Rouge could have been in a similar situation. Then some kid comes along and doesn't set him free? That would aggravate me. Though I wouldn't have said what he said, words uttered in a time of despair shouldn't be a death sentence.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Both those guys were hardened criminals on their way to the Wall when they were captured by Lannister forces. It's not like Arya killed some perfectly nice guy they happened to run into. They were quite likely the ones who'd torched that house in the first place.

I wouldn't say it was strictly a self-defense situation, but it was pretty close.

Not everyone who goes to the Wall is evil. Gendry was on his way to the Wall and he wasn't a criminal. If I was being sent to the Wall, personally, I'd try to escape and if they caught me, they'd have to cage me too to keep me there. Rouge could have been in a similar situation. Then some kid comes along and doesn't set him free? That would aggravate me. Though I wouldn't have said what he said, words uttered in a time of despair shouldn't be a death sentence.

I'm pretty sure a guy who threatens to rape a kid to death with a sword didn't start out a model citizen. Yoren was a jerk but he only kept 3 of his charges in a cage: Jaqen, Biter, and Rouge. Jaqen, we know for sure is an assassin. Biter was a murderous nut. Are we to believe Rouge was just a poor, misunderstood innocent?

I'm not saying Arya killing him is strictly justified, but they wanted the Hound and the Hound is the only person protecting her. He's hardly an ideal caretaker but he's a known quantity, unlike the guy who said he'd perforate Arya.

So, a choice between the Hound, who wants to ransom you and be done with it, or Rouge, who'd probably just kill you for being annoying? Not really much of a choice.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Both those guys were hardened criminals on their way to the Wall when they were captured by Lannister forces. It's not like Arya killed some perfectly nice guy they happened to run into. They were quite likely the ones who'd torched that house in the first place.

I worked on the assumption that they did.

I wouldn't say it was strictly a self-defense situation, but it was pretty close.

Agreed. Anyway, once Biter attacked the Hound but didn't finish him off, his companion was toast.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Mind you, he was also there to kill them.

Rouge wasn't there to kill Arya, him and his partner wanted the Hound.

And, after they'd killed him, what do you think they'd do to the 13 year old girl he had with him? I believe he had already described his intentions fairly graphically.

She was totally justified in killing him.

 

[DevilEyes]

OK, this time I really have to chime in with "in the books..." just to say that, if you have read them, you'd be extremely happy that Rorge and Biter are dead at this point. They appear a lot more in the books than in the show, and they don't die this early (and this fight against Arya and the Hound does not happen in the book)... let's just say that you really don't want to know some of the things they go on to do, and that Rorge is one of those minor ASOAIF characters that prove how wrong people are when they claim there are no completely evil characters in the series other than Joffrey and Ramsey.

 

[bbjeg]

Rouge wasn't there to kill Arya, him and his partner wanted the Hound.

And, after they'd killed him, what do you think they'd do to the 13 year old girl he had with him? I believe he had already described his intentions fairly graphically.

She was totally justified in killing him.

Just because someone says something, doesn't mean they're going to do it. Joffrey said he'd send Ned Stark to the Wall and we know how that turned out. Personally, I wouldn't call what she did justified, I'd call it evil, pure and simple. She's no longer just out for revenge anymore.

 

[TheSeeker]

I can't believe you are defending that guy.

 

[QCzar]

I think it's more an admonishment of Arya than sympathizing with that scumbag. Arya will sooner or later complete her transformation into "the Bride". Whether or not that's a good thing depends on where you fall on the vengeance scale.

That said, she's still well entrenched in the morally gray. But remember folks, it's not a list of people she's going to 'argue with'.

 

[Icemizer]

^QCzar it comes to mind thanks to your avatar that I would love to see Charles Dance as the new Master going against Capaldis Doctor. We now return to the Thrones discussion.

 

[Irvy]

I'm always slightly concerned about people who make moral judgements on characters from an entirely different (and fictional) universe based on contemporary moral social standards.

FICTION!