Game of Thrones 4.4 - "Oathkeeper" - Rate and discuss

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

If Jaime and Cersei had consensually had sex against the coffin of their dead son it would have had far more impact because it would have shown them to be even more obsessive and sick in their relationship than we already thought. Comforting each other that way, in that place.. no way to underestimate that these are two very twisted emmeshed people. Instead we got a rape which did nothing for character development and didn't make sense for the character of the rapist.

Thought this weeks ep was great, other than the slave revolt which was just silly. Should have been one scene of chaos and burning through the night before we see her ascending the steps to her new kingdom.

 

[chrisspringob]

Did you notice the thematic bookends to the episode? It opens with Grey Worm talking about how he can only ever remember being unsullied, and it's like he never existed before that, and then closes with the baby that was taken from its home to be turned into a White Walker, and will (presumably) never remember its life as a normal human. It's sort of like the season premiere, when we opened with one Stark sword being melted down and closed with another Stark sword being reunited with its owner.

In any case, on the White Walkers, so they include both those who were turned as living babies and then the zombie ones that are reanimated dead people? But they all used to be humans in some form, either living or dead?

I can't help but think there's going to be some massive reversal of expectations at the end of the story, and we'll find out that turning people into WWs is what they actually think is necessary for the survival of the human race in some form. Because there's some coming catastrophe that will otherwise destroy all normal humans, like an apocalypse created by dragons, or Melisandre's "Lord of Light" or something. Or maybe just climate change? Or perhaps disease. I feel like Stannis's daughter is going to be important in some way, and she has that disease that causes the scarring on her face. Maybe that'll spread to all of humanity, and there is no cure, except to be turned to a WW.

 

[chrisspringob]

Also, this episode prompted me to rewatch the scene from last season with the mutiny at Craster's. What is going on with the Night's Watch guy at about 2:47?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TMt7ooInjY

It looks like he's being warged.

 

[Brendan Moody]

^He's rolling his eyes at how unhelpful Craster is being.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Above average for me.

I was rather surprised by the opening scenes. I had thought that last week's final scene was meant to lead into the slaves revolting there and then. I thought this week would start with either Dany already in control of the city or immediately after the chains being launched and the slaves revolting. So I wasn't overly disappointed with the small scale of the revolt as seen onscreen. Liked seeing the slave owners getting their come uppance (or string-uppance!)

The KL scenes were fine but the relative normality between Jamie and Cersei made last week's rape look all the more poorly thought out by the writers. It's a shame Wilko Johnson isn't well enough to play Ser Illyn but the Jamie/Bronn scenes are fun. I'm glad they've put Brienne and Pod together, even if they've been united more quickly than in the books.

I found the Maergery/Tommen scene a little silly and it was hard to avoid the suspicion that they just want to have something for the actress to do.

Aiden Gillen continues to annoy me and even my wife looked up (she doesn't watch the show) and said "what is his accent supposed to be?" (And yes, we know he's Irish but he sounds like someone doing a bad Irish impression)

The castle black and Bran scenes really surprised me. Even the first shot of Locke at CB made me gasp. (Did any sky viewers notice the continuity announcer's warning about bad language before the segment at Craster's keep?). In a way, I like how I have absolutely no idea how all of this is going to pan out and I guess it's a more interesting story for Bran and co than walking through the snow.

Speaking of Snow, I wonder now if we are going to see a Stark family reunion of sorts soon?

 

[Forbin]

Double post!

 

[Forbin]

Y'all realize that Bran was Warging in a Winter Wonderland?

 

[Conundrum]

People getting upset over the rape is almost comical...lets think about Game of Thrones for a second...

Execution - OK
Murder - OK
Turture - OK
Child Murder - OK
Attempted Child Murder - OK
Sex - OK
Bisexuality - OK
Homosexuality - OK
Mutilation - OK
Betrayel - OK
Burning People Alive - OK
etc...


Rape - EHRMEGERD...*HYPERVENTILATE*.....*FAINTS*


Yeah, this is manufactured outrage generated by people with an agenda.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

People getting upset over the rape is almost comical...lets think about Game of Thrones for a second...

Execution - OK
Murder - OK
Turture - OK
Child Murder - OK
Attempted Child Murder - OK
Sex - OK
Bisexuality - OK
Homosexuality - OK
Mutilation - OK
Betrayel - OK
Burning People Alive - OK
etc...


Rape - EHRMEGERD...*HYPERVENTILATE*.....*FAINTS*


Yeah, this is manufactured outrage generated by people with an agenda.

Not true at all. Deeply intellectually dishonest, not to mention bankrupt. If anyone's trying to manufacture an outrage here, it's you. Good luck with that.

 

[davejames]

The KL scenes were fine but the relative normality between Jamie and Cersei made last week's rape look all the more poorly thought out by the writers. It's a shame Wilko Johnson isn't well enough to play Ser Illyn but the Jamie/Bronn scenes are fun. I'm glad they've put Brienne and Pod together, even if they've been united more quickly than in the books.

I don't know, Cersei sure seemed a whole lot colder and unhappier than we usually see her around Jamie. Although I agree we probably should have seen a greater sense of guilt or reflection from Jaime about what he did to her, at least during one of the scenes we got with him.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

People getting upset over the rape is almost comical...lets think about Game of Thrones for a second...

Execution - OK
Murder - OK
Turture - OK
Child Murder - OK
Attempted Child Murder - OK
Sex - OK
Bisexuality - OK
Homosexuality - OK
Mutilation - OK
Betrayel - OK
Burning People Alive - OK
etc...


Rape - EHRMEGERD...*HYPERVENTILATE*.....*FAINTS*


Yeah, this is manufactured outrage generated by people with an agenda.

Well, sex, homosexuality, and bisexuality are okay. As for the others, there's a difference between acts on screen that are morally reprehensible, but which form an important part of the narrative, and a scene that includes sexual violence with nudity - that some may find titillating - as background filler.

 

[Captaindemotion]

The KL scenes were fine but the relative normality between Jamie and Cersei made last week's rape look all the more poorly thought out by the writers. It's a shame Wilko Johnson isn't well enough to play Ser Illyn but the Jamie/Bronn scenes are fun. I'm glad they've put Brienne and Pod together, even if they've been united more quickly than in the books.

I don't know, Cersei sure seemed a whole lot colder and unhappier than we usually see her around Jamie. Although I agree we probably should have seen a greater sense of guilt or reflection from Jaime about what he did to her, at least during one of the scenes we got with him.

It's all objective obviously but my impression was that her coolness and anger was down to the loss of her son, Jamie's failure to protect him and his loyalty to Tyrion. The rape should've been mentioned by one or the other of them.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I found the Maergery/Tommen scene a little silly and it was hard to avoid the suspicion that they just want to have something for the actress to do.

I liked that scene. It was well written and well played, and the factions seeking to hold sway over Tommen is an important element.

 

[Tyberius]

I found the Maergery/Tommen scene a little silly and it was hard to avoid the suspicion that they just want to have something for the actress to do.

I liked that scene. It was well written and well played, and the factions seeking to hold sway over Tommen is an important element.

And something like that had to have happened. Maergery is not a POV character, but Cersei knew something was going on between them.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Tommen and Margery's scene was completely worth it, if only for the introduction of Ser Pounce.

Given the ageing up of all of the characters I was always sad we weren't going to get to see the book version of Tommen, gleefully "stamping" his name on any document put in front of him with the Kings Seal and being more interested in the ongoing battles of Ser Pounce!

Cute nod to the books for me.


Hugo - our little secret

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

EW reports that Ser Pounce won't be appearing again this season. Bryan Cogman said in an interview released by HBO that the cat was a nightmare to work with.

Cogman also said this about the dynamic between Jaime and Cersei:

The scene with Cersei and Jaime was a challenge. Of course, the undercurrent of the scene is what happened in the sept, even though it’s not explicitly discussed. It ends up being a real blowup as to where each of their loyalties lie, and of course, Tyrion is at center of it.

 

[Conundrum]

People getting upset over the rape is almost comical...lets think about Game of Thrones for a second...

Execution - OK
Murder - OK
Turture - OK
Child Murder - OK
Attempted Child Murder - OK
Sex - OK
Bisexuality - OK
Homosexuality - OK
Mutilation - OK
Betrayel - OK
Burning People Alive - OK
etc...


Rape - EHRMEGERD...*HYPERVENTILATE*.....*FAINTS*


Yeah, this is manufactured outrage generated by people with an agenda.

Not true at all. Deeply intellectually dishonest, not to mention bankrupt. If anyone's trying to manufacture an outrage here, it's you. Good luck with that.

I seem to have manufactured some with you, struck a nerve did I?

And no, you haven't actually disproved anything I said. People are fine with all manner of atrocity in the show until one comes up they feel they must show their PCness with by being unhappy about.

 

[Conundrum]

Well, sex, homosexuality, and bisexuality are okay. As for the others, there's a difference between acts on screen that are morally reprehensible, but which form an important part of the narrative, and a scene that includes sexual violence with nudity - that some may find titillating - as background filler.

The point is, those things listed could be upsetting to someone, but yet rape is the only one that is generating any outcry.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

You know, I do enjoy this show, but I'm getting a little tired of the writers/directors opting to punch up some scenes by adding rape. Turning the scene with Jaime and Cersei last week into a rape, and then this week's "all rape, all the time" mutineer party at Craster's Keep, I couldn't have imagined someone would read these books and think, "You know what we need here? More rape."

This so much! I love Jaime Lannister; I really do. He is an awesome character with a great arc. He is many things, he has done some fucked up shit, but he is no rapist. I was so angry with that, even though I don't mind most changes from the books they make.

The chief mutineer guy at Craster's keep is the Torchwood dude! I knew he seemed familiar.

Also...no Boltons? Again? I am disappoint.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

The point is, those things listed could be upsetting to someone, but yet rape is the only one that is generating any outcry.

There have been criticisms of other aspects of the show. Theon's torture scenes came in for quite a bit of criticism, for example. The general level of sex and nudity has been a topic of ongoing debate.