Game of Thrones 4.2 - "The Lion and the Rose" - Rate and discuss

[bbjeg]

I liked this episode, and glad to see that tyrant gone.

Btw, I don't think that the wine was poisoned. When Joffrey cuts the cake, the camera zooms in and focuses on a dead bird inside the cake

I think that pie was for specular appeal. The dead bird was due to how Jof cut it. I assume he was supposed to remove the top.

 

[Nociod]

I just watched the scene again, I stand corrected

Two dead birds with blood on them, plus the one head falls off... lol

But as mentioned earlier in this thread, he didn't start to choke until after he had some pieces. I still think the pie was poisoned.

 

[bbjeg]

^Same here. He showed discomfort after eating the pie.

 

[Noname Given]

These folks have complimented the show for cutting out a lot of useless fat and streamlining the story with better pacing.

I completely disagree with those people. The books are superior to the show in pretty much every respect. The fourth and fifth books meander, but they're still good.

And it's the age old discussion since they started making movies and TV shows out of books.. which do you prefer?

There will always be people who prefer the bare story.. what happens when and to whom and there are people for whom this is not "fat" but actual character and world building that gives you more insight to everything but for which a movie or TV show has no time naturally.

Sometimes though the movie can show you an explanation in a few seconds via a panoramic shot of the countryside whereas the author uses a page to do so. Both mediums have their advantage and calling it "fat" is just disrespectful to the book.

And remember the author of the book series is oftentimes writing many GoT TV series episodes as well. If you have to adapt something for TV, IMO, it's nice to have the guys who originally did the Books doing a lot of the TV adaptation.

 

[Brendan Moody]

If the poison was in the pie, it has to have been put there beforehand: there's no time for Margaery or anyone else to add anything to the plate after it's handed to her. So the scenario would have to be that someone bribed the assigned servingwoman to poison the plate, or distracted her long enough to add the poison himself/herself.

 

[Mister Fandango]

If the poison was in the pie, it has to have been put there beforehand: there's no time for Margaery or anyone else to add anything to the plate after it's handed to her. So the scenario would have to be that someone bribed the assigned servingwoman to poison the plate, or distracted her long enough to add the poison himself/herself.

I was thinking it was laced on the fork or something myself. Unless they're planning some kind of flashback scene, which I don't think they do very often on this show, it's very unlikely to be some random person behind the scenes. It had to be someone we saw at the wedding for it to hold any dramatic weight, and other than Tyrion and Sansa, Margaery is the only other person who could have delivered it.

Now whether she knew she was delivering it or not is another case altogether. It coulda been her grandmother (a very likely possibility to me, though to what gain I don't know) or even Oberyn (very unlikely; he doesn't seem the poison type either) who was responsible.

 

[Brendan Moody]

If the poison was in the pie, it has to have been put there beforehand: there's no time for Margaery or anyone else to add anything to the plate after it's handed to her. So the scenario would have to be that someone bribed the assigned servingwoman to poison the plate, or distracted her long enough to add the poison himself/herself.

I was thinking it was laced on the fork or something myself.

The fork comes in on the plate, so you're left with the same problem. Regardless of who one thinks is ultimately responsible, if the poison was in the pie/on the fork/on the plate, the physical act of adding the poison cannot have been performed by a major character.

 

[bbjeg]

If the poison was in the pie, it has to have been put there beforehand: there's no time for Margaery or anyone else to add anything to the plate after it's handed to her. So the scenario would have to be that someone bribed the assigned servingwoman to poison the plate, or distracted her long enough to add the poison himself/herself.

I was thinking it was laced on the fork or something myself.

The fork comes in on the plate, so you're left with the same problem. Regardless of who one thinks is ultimately responsible, if the poison was in the pie/on the fork/on the plate, the physical act of adding the poison cannot have been performed by a major character.

Unless they set it up before hand or bribed someone to do it.

 

[Brendan Moody]

The fork comes in on the plate, so you're left with the same problem. Regardless of who one thinks is ultimately responsible, if the poison was in the pie/on the fork/on the plate, the physical act of adding the poison cannot have been performed by a major character.

Unless they set it up before hand or bribed someone to do it.

And I mentioned both possibilities. Neither is "the physical act of adding the poison," though. That's what I'm talking about, not the person who's ultimately responsible.

Anyway, having gone back and watched the key moments more times than is healthy, I think there's an editing error in play here. There's a wide shot of Margaery, Joffrey, and two servingwomen, one in blue, one in pink. Margaery extends her arm to take a plate from the one in blue, while the one in pink is about to walk past the others. A split second before Margaery takes the plate, there's a cut to a brief shot of her grandmother and her father. Then there's a cut to Sansa and Tyrion wondering whether they can leave... but in the foreground of the same shot, we once again have Margaery extending her hand and the servant in pink passing her by. Depending which version is "real" for timing purposes, it's possible Margaery turned around and grabbed a fork rather than using one already on the plate.

 

[Candlelight]

Sorry if this has already been posted:

http://happyplace.someecards.com/30620/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-2

 

[Anwar]

Maybe it was a bit of both. There was half of the poison in the pie, but there needed to be another component to activate the poison, something in Joffrey's cup.

 

[lurok]

Now we know the jester did it

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU9QwIVL-3A[/yt]

 

[Bisz]

I am NOT hiring George RR martin as a wedding planner!

Aww? Why not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoBRto_8UII

 

[Forbin]

I wish people who read the books would stop mentioning things from the books.

I wish people who don't read the books would start reading them, since the books are much better.

Alas, our wishes don't always come true.

Yeah, I'll get right on that, after the backlog of 27 science fiction books I have piled up that I'm dying to get to...

I don't want to read the books. Maybe it's odd, but while I like watching fantasy films, I don't like reading fantasy novels. And I'd like to discuss what I watched without "Ooo, it wasn't like that in the books!" or "Oooo, if you read the books you'd know this and that!" It's a bit childish and quite annoying.

Didn't we have separate threads for the books and the series here at one point?

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ All I'd say is that I'm much like that. Enjoy fantasy films but hasn't read a fantasy novel since LOTR in my teens. Usually a map at the front of a book is enough to put me off.

I half-watched the first season of GOT and was somewhat lost but enjoyed it. I saw the first book in my local library around the time S2 started. I hesitated about picking it, asking myself 'am I ever really going to read this?' but figured what the hell, it was free and if I didn't like it, I could put it down, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But I was totally hooked and immediately hunted down all the other books. I've re-read them and I virtually never re-read books.

So, if someone like me who was as anti-fantasy novel as I was, can read and re-read them, you might be surprised at how much you enjoy them.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I will just say that all the clues are there to determine who killed Joffrey.

If you want a hint...

Spoiler: hint

...pay attention to Sansa's necklace.

 

[bbjeg]

I haven't read the books but I think I will after the television series is complete. I did that with LotR and preferred that to what I've previously done, read books prior to watching a television series or movie based on said books. I was generally disappointed in visual adaptations after reading the book because I imagine the characters differently. I discovered reading the book after still made it enjoyable, placing an already established character in a more detailed environment.

 

[DevilEyes]

I wish people who read the books would stop mentioning things from the books.

I wish people who don't read the books would start reading them, since the books are much better.

Alas, our wishes don't always come true.

Yeah, I'll get right on that, after the backlog of 27 science fiction books I have piled up that I'm dying to get to...

I don't want to read the books. Maybe it's odd, but while I like watching fantasy films, I don't like reading fantasy novels. And I'd like to discuss what I watched without "Ooo, it wasn't like that in the books!" or "Oooo, if you read the books you'd know this and that!" It's a bit childish and quite annoying.

Didn't we have separate threads for the books and the series here at one point?

I would say that it's childish and annoying to come to a thread about an adaptation of a book or a book series and start complaining about people who mention the books. "Noooooo don't talk about the books!!!" Why not? Who are you to decide that people aren't allowed to talk about the books?

Now, if someone started spoiling things just to annoy the Unsullied (that's the show-only fans, not the eunuch warriors ), as so many jerks do on Youtube, that would be completely different. But everyone here has been very careful not to spoil anything.

It also strikes me as childish to say: "I don't want to read the books, but I don't want to know any of the in-depth and background information that's provided in the books and that the show doesn't have the time or means to get across". I could understand that if you were motivated by a desire to read the books so you don't want them (sort of) "spoiled", but when it comes with a statement that you don't want to read the books at all, it's a bit annoying.

Finally, most of the book talk was initiated by someone who claimed that it's not necessary to read the books and that the show is better, even though he hasn't read them, based on what some of his friends told him. It's only natural that this is going to provoke discussion and disagreement.

And there is another thread in this forum, but it's not just for the books, it's for the series as a whole, both books and the show - it's called A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-filled Discussion. It's for people who have read all the books and/or know what happens (the only spoiler-tagged info is from the released excerpts from the upcoming 6th book, The Winds of Winter), but the show is discussed as much as the books. No one has thrown a fit yet and asked people to stop talking about the show, or started a separate book series thread where talk of the show is forbidden.

 

[Ryan8bit]

My latest theory on the poison:

I think Pycelle may have been involved. Tyrion previously had him locked up because he thought Pycelle was an agent of Cersei in the poisoning of Jon Arryn. And Cersei did mention to Pycelle to not give the leftovers to the poor, implying that he may have had some control over the kitchen staff. If he had that control, it's possible he poisoned the pie.

Although the poison being in the pie seems dangerous. It seems like it could have affected Margery as well. It would require foreknowledge that Joffrey wouldn't share it with her (which isn't too hard to guess, but you never know).

No one has thrown a fit yet and asked people to stop talking about the show, or started a separate book series thread where talk of the show is forbidden.

I would think it's obvious why that is. The books are far ahead of the show. Despite whatever minor differences there will be, there is a lot more potential for spoiling things in the adaptation to TV.

 

[TheSeeker]

I have to say that I am glad I read the books prior to the show coming out. I think I would be lost trying to keep up with all the characters if I hadn't. I'm sure my wife is glad I've read them too since she asks for clarification on a lot of stuff.