Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

[Venardhi]

It all smacks to me of Martin being a sadist/attention whore who wants to just be all counter and shock his readers/audience - "Look at me! I can write a book where good DOES NOT triumph and evil sometimes wins!"

To me it 'smacks' of Martin being a fantastic writer. Every bad thing that happens to good people is the natural result of their own foolish actions. Ned was naive and his perspective was limited to that of his own honor-bound view and (TV)Robb was basically a rebellious teen who thought himself invincible.

In the books, there is nothing 'twist' about these deaths, you can follow them from action to action to action until they are the only possible solution to the plot. You may not see it at first, but it is all there.

It isn't about being shocking and 'grimmdark' as some like to call it. It is about telling the story of this kingdom through all the war and politics and the Starks just happen to be the most sympathetic side in the mess and thus made good protagonists. War is messy, revolution is messy(and rarely successful), the most moral and honorable sides usually lose. And in the end, that will make the victory of the few remaining 'heroes' that much sweeter.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Well said.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Yeah, yeah. I know that and I've heard it all before. And I was drinking the Kool Aid too and listening to the audiobooks in 2011. Then the Red Wedding happened. I could hardly make it through book 3 after that. Then I quit. After reading what happens in books 4 and 5, I guess I saved myself the trouble.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if I wanted suffering and doom, there's any number of Russian novels for me down at the library.

The Fat Man probably thought he was creative, but actually wrote himself into a corner. And now he doesn't know what to do and is dragging his feet in finishing the series.

 

[Venardhi]

Yeah, yeah. I know that and I've heard it all before. And I was drinking the Kool Aid too and listening to the audiobooks in 2011. Then the Red Wedding happened. I could hardly make it through book 3 after that. Then I quit. After reading what happens in books 4 and 5, I guess I saved myself the trouble.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if I wanted suffering and doom, there's any number of Russian novels for me down at the library.

The Fat Man probably thought he was creative, but actually wrote himself into a corner. And now he doesn't know what to do and is dragging his feet in finishing the series.

You make a compelling argument for not bothering to read your posts in the future.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Yeah, yeah. I know that and I've heard it all before. And I was drinking the Kool Aid too and listening to the audiobooks in 2011. Then the Red Wedding happened. I could hardly make it through book 3 after that. Then I quit. After reading what happens in books 4 and 5, I guess I saved myself the trouble.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if I wanted suffering and doom, there's any number of Russian novels for me down at the library.

The Fat Man probably thought he was creative, but actually wrote himself into a corner. And now he doesn't know what to do and is dragging his feet in finishing the series.

You make a compelling argument for not bothering to read your posts in the future.

Prove me wrong, then. You know what happens in books 4 and 5. You know how long he took to write them. Tell me that he hasn't written himself into a corner, is trying to get out, and had no idea what to do so he just started pulling stuff out of his ass from the moment he wrote the Red Wedding. I'm genuinely open minded here.

 

[cbspock]

So this book series right now, has no ending? So how long before the TV series catches up to where the books are? Then what happens?


-Chris

 

[sttngfan1701d]

So this book series right now, has no ending? So how long before the TV series catches up to where the books are? Then what happens?


-Chris

There are supposed to be 7 books. Five have been published. We'll see if the author actually finishes the last two before the series catches up.

The series is up to roughly 60% of the way through book 3. Season 4 will be the rest of book 3 and into book 4.

 

[DalekJim]

It all smacks to me of Martin being a sadist/attention whore

I don't think it's sadistic killing fictional characters that don't exist, but maybe that's just me. Also, if you're an attention whore then being a writer is one of the dumbest career paths possible.

Robb wasn't even a POV character in the book series and Catelyn served little purpose. Both got terrific deaths and their absence isn't missed by me in the way I'd hugely miss say, Bran as a POV character.

 

[Roshi]

Stick to cookie cutter dumb shit like Star Trek Into Darkness if you want shallow clean cut battles of Good vs Evil where the ending of the story is obvious 5 minutes in. George RR Martin strives for a more realistic, unpredicable approach, without the line between good and evil being drawn. It's what makes the series so refreshing. My favourite characters are Melisandre, Jaime, Stannis and Roose. All of which have done atrocious things. It's the charm of the series.

Robb and Catelyn were nobody's favourites so I doubt anybody will quit watching. If they'd killed Tyrion, Jaime and Arya in the same scene then maybe

Do you really need to bring your stupid comments about STiD in this thread?

 

[sttngfan1701d]

If they'd killed Tyrion, Jaime and Arya in the same scene then maybe

Do you honestly think non-reading viewers are going to like what happens to Tyrion, Arya, and Jon Snow for that matter if the show follows the books? And Bran? Seriously?

At some point there's going to be a massive "Screw this," from the viewership. The only thing saving this series past season 4 is Stannis' storyline and Dany's.

 

[Roshi]

You may be onto something!

 

[Venardhi]

If they'd killed Tyrion, Jaime and Arya in the same scene then maybe

Do you honestly think non-reading viewers are going to like what happens to Tyrion, Arya, and Jon Snow for that matter if the show follows the books? And Bran? Seriously?

At some point there's going to be a massive "Screw this," from the viewership. The only thing saving this series past season 4 is Stannis' storyline and Dany's.

Just walk away man. You clearly find no satisfaction here. Save your energy, funnel it towards something you love.

 

[Q2UnME]

The ending of last nights episode had the Mrs. & I just sitting there going "WTF?" We've not read the books, nor delved into spoilers so the conclusion for Robb, Cat & Mrs.Robb was shocking and brutal.

They were some of the charactures we liked, so I'm a little unsure about really caring about the remaining. Could care less about Bran, even less about Stanis. Other than Jon Snow, Arya, Danny and Tyrion the show has managed to kill most of the characters that mattered to us.

Only thing to look forward to is potentially seeing Joeffery barbaqued by Denny's dragons. That would be deserving payback.... evil little shit ....

Q2

 

[sttngfan1701d]

If they'd killed Tyrion, Jaime and Arya in the same scene then maybe

Do you honestly think non-reading viewers are going to like what happens to Tyrion, Arya, and Jon Snow for that matter if the show follows the books? And Bran? Seriously?

At some point there's going to be a massive "Screw this," from the viewership. The only thing saving this series past season 4 is Stannis' storyline and Dany's.

Just walk away man. You clearly find no satisfaction here. Save your energy, funnel it towards something you love.

I personally know several casual viewers who are disgusted with what happened last night. I told them to stick it out a little longer, because of the stuff that happens on the Wall and King's Landing. But I honestly do not see casual viewers caring about things past a certain point. And I'm not trying to be contrarian here. If the series follows the books to a T there will be a point like with BSG where people just sigh and walk away.

 

[Ryan]

Ugh. This thread is why I try to stay away from online GoT discussion. The book people just ruin everything.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Stick to cookie cutter dumb shit like Star Trek Into Darkness if you want shallow clean cut battles of Good vs Evil where the ending of the story is obvious 5 minutes in. George RR Martin strives for a more realistic, unpredicable approach, without the line between good and evil being drawn. It's what makes the series so refreshing. My favourite characters are Melisandre, Jaime, Stannis and Roose. All of which have done atrocious things. It's the charm of the series.

Robb and Catelyn were nobody's favourites so I doubt anybody will quit watching. If they'd killed Tyrion, Jaime and Arya in the same scene then maybe

Game of thrones IS cookie cutter shit with clean cut battles of Good vs. Evil.
It's just that GRR Martin likes to let the Bad guys win - for shock value. And the good guys will be made naive/etc for that to happen.

That's not more realistic than Good winning. Also, it's hardly original.

 

[Alex1939]

Prove me wrong, then. You know what happens in books 4 and 5. You know how long he took to write them. Tell me that he hasn't written himself into a corner, is trying to get out, and had no idea what to do so he just started pulling stuff out of his ass from the moment he wrote the Red Wedding. I'm genuinely open minded here.

R + L = J

I believe GRRM said that he was going to do a time jump after book three but had to write some synopsis of what happened to the characters during the jump. The synopsis became so much that he ended up just making them into books. He really hasn't written himself in a corner and I'm still expecting the predicted ending of the series.

Fwiw, I've read almost all his other novels by now, and mostly they have satisfying endings.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Prove me wrong, then. You know what happens in books 4 and 5. You know how long he took to write them. Tell me that he hasn't written himself into a corner, is trying to get out, and had no idea what to do so he just started pulling stuff out of his ass from the moment he wrote the Red Wedding. I'm genuinely open minded here.

R + L = J

I believe GRRM said that he was going to do a time jump after book three but had to write some synopsis of what happened to the characters during the jump. The synopsis became so much that he ended up just making them into books. He really hasn't written himself in a corner and I'm still expecting the predicted ending of the series.

Fwiw, I've read almost all his other novels by now, and mostly they have satisfying endings.

You do realise you failed to prove sttngfan1701d wrong, yes?

 

[trekkiebaggio]

Oh wow I was in shock watching that. That was so well done, at first I thought killing Robb's wife was going to be the payback, but nope, it carried on. Loved Arya running in to help, and the Hound knocking her out and dragging her away. I like their little double team, although it'll be interesting to see what the Hound does now since there's no-one to pay him for her.

I'm glad Brann at least got to see Jon Snow even if there hasn't been a reunion yet (I hope at least part of the family gets to reunite, I mean I love that it's dark and tragic but I'd like a little sweetness sprinkled in here and there). I also wonder how long it will take for word to reach Sansa.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Prove me wrong, then. You know what happens in books 4 and 5. You know how long he took to write them. Tell me that he hasn't written himself into a corner, is trying to get out, and had no idea what to do so he just started pulling stuff out of his ass from the moment he wrote the Red Wedding. I'm genuinely open minded here.

R + L = J

I believe GRRM said that he was going to do a time jump after book three but had to write some synopsis of what happened to the characters during the jump. The synopsis became so much that he ended up just making them into books. He really hasn't written himself in a corner and I'm still expecting the predicted ending of the series.

Fwiw, I've read almost all his other novels by now, and mostly they have satisfying endings.

You do realise you failed to prove sttngfan1701d wrong, yes?

How is one supposed to "prove" that one way or the other when it's a completely subjective thing?